azhole

I tried searching for this to no avail.

History: @27k, s2k threw code as slow secondary O2 sensor. Honda replaced the CAT under warranty, and replaced the O2 sensor. The honeycomb in the CAT literally came loose and sheared off the O2 sensor.

now @40k, CAT is again reading bad (different code, but Honda clearly said it is the CAT "below threshold, or something like that").

The only reason I took to dealership is that I had a sneaky feeling it was the CAT when the light came on. No other symptoms. Dealership had to throw it up on the lift, so they could verify today. They called this afternoon, and left a message saying they are replacing the CAT (again) free of charge tomorrow, but that there is a software update to emissions that will run me $100. Three questions:

1. What could possibly be going on that would make me burn through 2 CATS in 13k miles?
2. Is the software update BS? (I tried searching for this, but could not find it)
3. If not BS, what does the software update fix? known issue, or not? (+12hp maybe? )

I am born skeptical, would love to get some feedback from the forum. Thanks everyone.---Shaun

Boofster

You're not posting codes but the primary o2 sensor is a TSB for '06+.
Mine failed at 40k. The replacement is a complete redesign.

The secondary o2 was a TSB a while back but it was resolved with an ECU reflash afik.

Manga_Spawn

What year is your car? Sounds like if it is 06+ then it should be covered by the service thing he just mentioned. That's really odd though. Just get a test pipe.

azhole

thx Boofster.

they did not say anything about the 02 sensor. I was very busy at work, and did not have time to return the message and talk to him more. I lost the codes, but there were two, I will get them tomorrow. Off the top of your head, when was the TSB? Seems weird that they would not have told me about that 14 months ago when the first CAT went.

I will follow up with another post tomorrow on what they say. I wonder if the o2 fix you speak of, and the bad cat I have are unrelated....is $100 typical of a reflash? As of now, I am inclined to get more info, and take it back if I need the reflash.

azhole

sorry all, it is an 07. I am normally more detailed than this, but work is crazy, and I am not sleeping much. Next week it will be worse, 3 countries in 5 days....thanks for the help.

Boofster

'06+ o2 sensor problems:

Primary o2 sensor issue(s):
CEL P2A00 - A/F Sensor (Sensor 1) Circuit Range/Performance Problem [may have damaged cat]
CEL P1172 - A/F Sensor (Sensor 1) Circuit Out of Range, High [moisture in exhaust]
CEL P0133 - O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 1) [usually sensor is dead]
Solution:
Replace with part number 36531-PZX-013 ($2xx dollars from Ben Honda)
TSB: http://ww2.justanswer.de/uploads/hyb...2012_p1172.pdf

Original on left, new on right:


---------

Secondary o2 sensor issue:
CEL P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)
Solution:
Many fix it with a $10 Blox Racing spacer (check the exhaust section of their website) and it works for test pipes as well.
The ECU reflash in the TSB above may fix this as well. "The PGM-FI software has been changed to delay A/F sensor heater operation when there is a high probability of moisture on the A/F sensor."

azhole

Hi all,

followed up with Honda today. The codes it threw were P0600 and P0420. These are different than the one from before P0139 (by memory=slow response from secndary O2 sensor. Three curious things:

1. Honda says the reflash might have been done FOC (free of charge) when they replaced the first cat. Is there any way to verify this? They said they could not, and the tech who did the first replacement is no longer with them.
2. They said the reflash specifically deals with the emissions/cat. I led them down the logic chain saying "honda spends $1200 every time they have to replace a cat, and you are going to charge me $100 so you don't have to spend $1200 in another 13k miles?" Dealership agreed, but Honda warranty specialist did not see the light....
3. Honda warranty person told the dealership to "mark the cat" so as to prove that if it goes again, then they can know it was the part they replaced. I guess there is no s/n on these things. I had to laugh at the suggestion that I might be scamming them. I also joked that what I should really do is to put in a test pipe....would Honda warranty accept that as a solution?

They basically said that it was the same problem as before, and they will replace the secondary O2 sensor also FOC. Will take another day to get THAT part (not a big deal unless I see my S on the road between now and then). I will be sure to look closely at the p/n that they put in there based on the pics/info boofster sent.

so, this begs the questions....does the reflash hinder performance? Why am I rattling the honeycomb loose? What happens if I finally get spousal approval for the dual exhaust from evasive and the J's header and it fails again? (that would be a nice problem to have, since the wife is still pissed I bought the wheels from boofster...)

Boofster

The ECU should be easy to verify if it's just the latest version of the software for the s2k.
No, the fix does not seem to do anything performance related from what they describe.
FlashPro upgrade would solve all this
It's a better mod than exhaust and headers for less money.

I would say, get a tp and you'll never have these problems again.

CBR2200

+1 for the Flashpro. It's basically $100 off now since you'll save that on the dealer reflash. Then you throw in a test pipe and turn off your secondard o2 and you're good to go.