c32b

Hi folks,

Did a UOA of my engine, gearbox and differential oils.

1. Engine oil was Motul 300V 5W-40
a) Nitration is high and needs attention. b) Fuel quality may be suspect (I cannot avoid this as I have to travel into another country with suspect fuel quality in order to track) so I should consider a cleaning additive.

[attachment=19711:Engine UOA.pdf]

2. Gearbox oil was Motul Gear 300 75W-90
a) No significant issues but it is likely that there has been dilution from incomplete draining of a previous oil

[attachment=19712:Gearbox UOA.pdf]

3. Rear Differential oil was Motul Gear 300 75W-90 Type FF (meant for LSD equipped differentials)
a) High iron and nickel which is potentially a corrosion issue so inspection of venting for differential is necessary.

[attachment=19713ifferential UOA.pdf]

Generally, from what I gather, oil was of excellent quality and helped in cleaning up the engine and staving away wear. I did switch a bit here and there through oils but after a discussion with reference to the information above, made a decision to stick to Motul long term.

This was done in late '09 where I was tracking very regularly (like once every 1 or 2 months without some of the cooling modifications I have now) so I think I may do another UOA some time soon to check up on the engine etc.

Based on recommendations, I have since decided to run motul 10w-40 for the engine and Moty's M409M 75W-140 for gearbox and diff. Will probably stick to this unless the next UOA tells me otherwise.

SpitfireS

Thanks for posting the UOA's
The more the better

A couple of things I don't understand:
Fuel contamination in the diff and gearbox?
Is this because of the lowered flashpoint, IOW, low flash = fuel by default?
Dyson is supposed to be a good lab, I think its strange.

To call high iron and nickel in the diff corrosion is IMO a stretch, why not call it "wear"?
Did you do a particle count and did they look at the particles through a microscope to see what they look like?
(how is this called again? seen amazing pictures here not to long ago)

Why use the same oil for the diff and gearbox?
Even if they say you can with their oil, I think you do not get the best for both.
You should not use GL-5 in the trans and you should not use GL-4 in the diff.
So what spec is the Moty's M409?
Yes, I've found the Moty's website - and the oil in question - but can't find any TDS.

INDYMAC

Thanks for posting these c32b. I'm really not very familiar with these lubricants. I assume that they are popular in Europe.

Your engine oil held up well for the mileage, and does appear to be very high quality. The wear numbers look OK, and should come down if you continue to use this oil (it's difficult to evaluate the first fill of any oil until at least the second fill). Here is an interesting article I found that discusses the various chemistries of 5W-40 engine oils available in Europe:

http://freeweb.siol....-stabilnost.pdf


Your transmission oil choice is interesting. Although it did shear (they all seem to), it protected very well, especially in the bearing areas (Pb/Cu). What was your subjective assessment of this oil, and what have you used previously? Here is a UOA I did with Honda MTF II at the same mileage on my unit to compare:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...ue#Post1976964

Your gear oil UOA for the diff is excellent IMO. Not much shear, and the wear numbers are outstanding. I think it protects as well as LE1605. Here are some UOA's I did using LE1605 and LE607:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...ue#Post1495907

The low flash point and fuel content numbers identified in your gear oil UOA's are most likely identifying high aromatics content in either the base oils used, or the additive package they chose to go with the base oils in the final product...unless you are pouring fuel into the tranny and diff!

c32b

Thanks Indymac for the reading of the no's. I'm in no way as close to familiar as u are so it is good to have ur input. Regrettably, such services are extremely inconvenient for me to perform since I am so far away and thus can only do them at fairly long intervals. The local scene here also doesn't emphasize usage of UOA so access is limited (most think I'm crazy to be so extreme to do UOA while I think they are crazy to use their hands to "feel" how coarse/smooth the oil is as an indicator of oil quality???).

My subjective input is as follows:

Motul 300v 5w-40: for the abuse at track, 5-10 hot laps at a go with >50 deg C track temps, this oil may benefit greatly with the use of a quality oil cooler. I later ran a greddy ns1310g core and had oil temps about 110-118 deg C which were a whole 10-15 deg C lower (I regularly ran 20 hot laps with aggressve shift points and the oil temp stayed rock solid) than someone running a more expensive HKS oilcooler .

I cannot definitively say how much the oil cooler did to prevent breakdown of the oil but I didnt notice any pressure changes and my engine has held up well (130k kms now with recent compression tests onl 1 cyl with 5kpa less)

Gear 300: for the gearbox I did feel that early morning shifting was a bit stiffer than mTF III so I just shifted more gently and gradually. This was compensated as mtf III tended to feel not smooth only after a few thousand km while gear 300 felt excellent through out once it was warmed up.

I always think of driving to warm up my gearbox oil as opposed to engine since gearbox takes longer. My ambient temps are about 24-25 deg C on "cold" rainy mornings to hot 34 deg C afternoons. Don't really have much input for the diff oil although my brief flirting with ATS fluid was somehow not one that left me feeling positive, went back to motul right away.

I have switched to moty's m409m for gearbox and diff as recommended by a friend who distributes this. It was run on an s2000 and did well so I was comfortable to try. Japanese oils don't tend to have too much data on them sadly. Current feel is that it shifts well and I think the higher numbers will give good longer term protection.

I have emailed motul and moty's for an answer to how suitable my usage will be of their products esp wrt sulphur content. Will come back with their answers.

starchland

0.6 TBN on the diff fluid? Am I reading right?

SpitfireS

What was the OCI?
Not the 55000 miles I see on the pdf's.... right?

c32b

Oci was 7k miles. Total mileage at date was 55k miles

Following on from my query to moty's
----
Thank you for asking us about M409M 75W140.
M409M is excellent quality for synchronizer matching as well as for protecting to protect metal corrosion such as yellow metal.
If you have any more question, please contact to our Singapore technical advisely office “ Racedynamics, Mr.Wayne Teo”. You can get exact advice from them for your inquiry.
Also we are well come to ask us Japan Moty’s Office.
Thank you,

Yoshiaki Yonekawa Moty’s Technical Division

SpitfireS

It would be nice to know (for you and for us) the API GL rating of the M409M.
Also, if you're going to ask, ask them the ASTM D-130 copper corrosion test results.

Did Redline MT-90 cross your mind as a thicker (GL-4) manual trans oil?

I'll be the last - the very last! - to say a 75W-140 is not good for the diff, but if its GL-4.....

Hopefully they (Moty's) are not going to say that they are using this super duper EP additive that makes oil GL-5 AND 100% safe for yellow metals.
Unless they bought some leftover Almasol solid additive from LE

c32b

Thanks spitfire, have relayed the questions u mentioned to see if I can get some answers

c32b

Excellent follow up by RaceDynamics , dealer for Moty's.

Result as below:

"M409M ASTM D 130, corrosion test result, 1b. It means that cupper colored slightly tan after test 100 degree X 3 hours, excellent corrosion protection."

With that, I am reassured to run this fluid in my gearbox and differential long term.