Volk CE28 alloy too soft?
11-10-2010, 10:37 AM
#21
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[QUOTE=GrandMasterKhan,Nov 8 2010, 07:03 PM] sometimes i wonder if your drunk when you post.
WHY is it then that HONDA recommends MORE camber for the UK S2000s? More camber = more grip in cornering. TOO much camber can be bad of course (hellaflush camber), but simply adding a little camber will NOT cause snap oversteer. In fact in the racing forum, you'll see lots of guys running 2-3 degrees in the front and around 3 degees in the rear with excellent results.
I personally run 1.5 in the front and 2.5 in the rear and i find its an excellent handling setup, the more camber I add in the rear the more rear end grip i get during all cornering. I have run as much as 2.8 degees in the rear on the street.
The OP specifically stated he had OEM camber specs and he runs a littler more positive camber to lengthen tire life. This is actually LESS benefical for cornering.
WHY is it then that HONDA recommends MORE camber for the UK S2000s? More camber = more grip in cornering. TOO much camber can be bad of course (hellaflush camber), but simply adding a little camber will NOT cause snap oversteer. In fact in the racing forum, you'll see lots of guys running 2-3 degrees in the front and around 3 degees in the rear with excellent results.
I personally run 1.5 in the front and 2.5 in the rear and i find its an excellent handling setup, the more camber I add in the rear the more rear end grip i get during all cornering. I have run as much as 2.8 degees in the rear on the street.
The OP specifically stated he had OEM camber specs and he runs a littler more positive camber to lengthen tire life. This is actually LESS benefical for cornering.
11-10-2010, 11:05 AM
#22
Duke, your saying that with an 18" wheel that one should a more postive camber setting than stock because if you don't it will cause more snap oversteer?
I don't know if you can read, but the OP JUST said that the little positive camber he dialed in Caused More snap oversteer which is exactly the opposite of what you said.
The SRT-4 runs 0 camber in the front for the best straight line traction. But the s2000 was never designed as a straight line machine, it's meant for cornering and that's where having properly dialed in camber really shines.
I have an AP2 so snap oversteer is not an issue for me. However, for the AP1 there is the anti-bump steer kit designed to correct that issue. Never would I recommend someone to run less camber than stock.
Unlike you Duke, I actually have the same wheel setup as the OP. I don't pull information out of my ass or spread misinformation (168whp oem dyno & anyone who claims 200+whp from an s2000 is a liar) I also disagree with you that volks are not a strong wheel. Sure the OEM Rays wheels are probably stronger sure. But to address the OP's concerns. The CE28s are Not too soft of an alloy. My suggestion is he have properly sized Width tires with a decent sidewall strength. I recommend if he is very concerned with tire wear to have his toe settings set as close to zero as possible especially in the front. It will however cause a slightly floaty feeling on the highway.
The s2000 has the recommended alignment settings targeting cornering, it is widely accepted that the UK spec alignment settings are ideal for improved handling at the expense of tire life. I use a compromise of zero toe with more aggressive camber to achieve reduced tire wear while maintaining excellent cornering grip in all conditions. Combined with the ability to rotate right/left I am able to get much more life from my tires.
I have recommended tire sizes and settings to the OP to address his concerns. I wouldn't say he should run as an aggressive camber setup as me, but it do recommend a little more camber than stock for best handling in all situations from slow to medium and even highspeed cornering.
I don't know if you can read, but the OP JUST said that the little positive camber he dialed in Caused More snap oversteer which is exactly the opposite of what you said.
The SRT-4 runs 0 camber in the front for the best straight line traction. But the s2000 was never designed as a straight line machine, it's meant for cornering and that's where having properly dialed in camber really shines.
I have an AP2 so snap oversteer is not an issue for me. However, for the AP1 there is the anti-bump steer kit designed to correct that issue. Never would I recommend someone to run less camber than stock.
Unlike you Duke, I actually have the same wheel setup as the OP. I don't pull information out of my ass or spread misinformation (168whp oem dyno & anyone who claims 200+whp from an s2000 is a liar) I also disagree with you that volks are not a strong wheel. Sure the OEM Rays wheels are probably stronger sure. But to address the OP's concerns. The CE28s are Not too soft of an alloy. My suggestion is he have properly sized Width tires with a decent sidewall strength. I recommend if he is very concerned with tire wear to have his toe settings set as close to zero as possible especially in the front. It will however cause a slightly floaty feeling on the highway.
The s2000 has the recommended alignment settings targeting cornering, it is widely accepted that the UK spec alignment settings are ideal for improved handling at the expense of tire life. I use a compromise of zero toe with more aggressive camber to achieve reduced tire wear while maintaining excellent cornering grip in all conditions. Combined with the ability to rotate right/left I am able to get much more life from my tires.
I have recommended tire sizes and settings to the OP to address his concerns. I wouldn't say he should run as an aggressive camber setup as me, but it do recommend a little more camber than stock for best handling in all situations from slow to medium and even highspeed cornering.
11-12-2010, 10:23 PM
#23
Update.
I STILL have not received my 2 volks rims from the machine shop.
I did receive my new Direzza Star Spec for my Ap1 rims. (right now the ap1 have balds Toyos on, from my last track day)
But I need my volks to swap out the AP1s paint them right, and wrap with the new tires.
grandMasterKhan, I would like to see pictures of your setup if possible.
I'm unaware about how much camber I had when I bought the car (the car had the volks with Falkens inner side worn) so dunno If I had a similar setup as yours, I had no rubbing issue of any kind and it didn't look very aggressive, at least at the front. it looked like the previous owner put on the tein suspension and didn't correct the camber.
Yes, I could describe the camber setup like when u put drop spings on OEM alignment setup... camber automatically goes negative in non precise way.
I STILL have not received my 2 volks rims from the machine shop.
I did receive my new Direzza Star Spec for my Ap1 rims. (right now the ap1 have balds Toyos on, from my last track day)
But I need my volks to swap out the AP1s paint them right, and wrap with the new tires.
grandMasterKhan, I would like to see pictures of your setup if possible.
I'm unaware about how much camber I had when I bought the car (the car had the volks with Falkens inner side worn) so dunno If I had a similar setup as yours, I had no rubbing issue of any kind and it didn't look very aggressive, at least at the front. it looked like the previous owner put on the tein suspension and didn't correct the camber.
Yes, I could describe the camber setup like when u put drop spings on OEM alignment setup... camber automatically goes negative in non precise way.
11-13-2010, 12:59 PM
#24
Here are few images:
top up fail! lol It was 34 degrees and I was going at a good speed in this photo. The star specs held quite nicely despite the terribly cold pavement. It actually started to snow/sleet not too long after this was taken.
Its easy to see, both outside tires have full contact with the pavement all the way to the outside edge of the tire. I'd say its setup quite nicely.
top up fail! lol It was 34 degrees and I was going at a good speed in this photo. The star specs held quite nicely despite the terribly cold pavement. It actually started to snow/sleet not too long after this was taken.
Its easy to see, both outside tires have full contact with the pavement all the way to the outside edge of the tire. I'd say its setup quite nicely.
11-15-2010, 09:12 AM
#26
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I've run these before (wish I never sold them) and I beat them to hell and never had any issues with potholes that I've hit hard. They're a little cheaper than volks for the same quality too. Thinking about getting some type c's next time I'm ready to buy wheels though
SSR Type F
SSR Type F
11-17-2010, 12:51 PM
#27
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I agree that if you bent the lip slightly on your ce28n's, then other rims would've been worse. I've had about 6 sets of ce28n's (all 17's so may not compare the same) and I've driven on crappy los angeles roads with not-so-forgiving spring rates (600lb on macpherson strut setups, 900-1000 on independent/double wishbone set ups) and numerous times on the track without any bends.
Maybe it's the 18 with the thin sidewalls? Also, with regards to the RPF1s, i've heard those are actually really soft rims (check evo forums with people bending their lips). I've had an evo friend bend 2 of his, but he had a little excursion that damaged his bumper as well.
Maybe it's the 18 with the thin sidewalls? Also, with regards to the RPF1s, i've heard those are actually really soft rims (check evo forums with people bending their lips). I've had an evo friend bend 2 of his, but he had a little excursion that damaged his bumper as well.
11-18-2010, 09:57 AM
#28
Got my rims back today
They look very clean, job was kida expensive @$278 for 2 rims.
time to deliver was about almost 3 weeks, but the guy manage to get fix the bends with the proper machine and custom tailored teflon pieces. Also he was ablo to heat the rims without damaging the paint.
I will now work to get again a new alignment. and get something between stock and conservative, camber wise, also will try to have set the toe close to 0
They look very clean, job was kida expensive @$278 for 2 rims.
time to deliver was about almost 3 weeks, but the guy manage to get fix the bends with the proper machine and custom tailored teflon pieces. Also he was ablo to heat the rims without damaging the paint.
I will now work to get again a new alignment. and get something between stock and conservative, camber wise, also will try to have set the toe close to 0
11-18-2010, 10:42 AM
#29
I run my CE28N in following setup even with 900lb springs I do not have any issues. I think it's the crappy tires. Even Hankook RS3 are known to have soft sidewalls.
18x9 +40mm offset
Advan Ad08 255/35/18 non staggered
J's Crux coilovers with 900lb Swift springs
18x9 +40mm offset
Advan Ad08 255/35/18 non staggered
J's Crux coilovers with 900lb Swift springs
01-04-2011, 12:49 PM
#30
Well guys
Last weekend I was touring by dad around and on the HIGHWAY, I stepped in this little hole like 1 inch deep.
I thought, I marked the rims... again.
Got home and inspected the wheel, no visual damage, but under my finger I could feel this little bump on the wheel lip... AGAIN!!!
JEZUS!!!! I was so pissed...
I decided I'm gonna sell the tires and go back to a wider tire setup. No I have 215F and 245R I'm rolling back to 225 and 255.
Screw the thread consumption!
I'm on tein green coils... what's the biggest Height I can Run? 40 and 35?
Last weekend I was touring by dad around and on the HIGHWAY, I stepped in this little hole like 1 inch deep.
I thought, I marked the rims... again.
Got home and inspected the wheel, no visual damage, but under my finger I could feel this little bump on the wheel lip... AGAIN!!!
JEZUS!!!! I was so pissed...
I decided I'm gonna sell the tires and go back to a wider tire setup. No I have 215F and 245R I'm rolling back to 225 and 255.
Screw the thread consumption!
I'm on tein green coils... what's the biggest Height I can Run? 40 and 35?