Hello,

Anyone with AP2 S2K rolling on 1.0 stagger instead of the normal 1.5? Any cons or noticeable difference that you feel?

Thanks!

 

Read the posts by Syncro. Good info on this

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=524916

 

Thanks Suzukaboy.

 

(edit: stock stagger is >2")

Suggestion: Try 1.5" before going to 1". 1" stagger on an AP2 isn't actually all that aggressive in my experience, but that's based on only two drivers - me and my g/f (she is on S2ki as well). She liked the better turn-in, but wasn't too happy with the tires themselves (crappy tires).

Give it a shot, but take things one step at a time.

I'll have her post in here with her comments on running 1" stagger on an MY07.

 

Stock wheel stagger is 1.5" on an AP2. Stock tread-width-on-the-ground-during-cornering is dependent on a number of factors not included in published "tread width" figures.

In any case, the effects of changing it are often overstated...

IMHO of course!

 

[QUOTE=ZDan,Sep 14 2007, 04:50 PM] Stock wheel stagger is 1.5" on an AP2.

 

The "back-to-back testing" you did, was it between two stagger setups of the same make/model tires with approximately the same amount of treadwear and number of heat cycles?

You guys regularly take corners "to the max speed possible" only at the track I hope...

I've taken my (stock) AP1 to the track with 1" tread-width stagger and with .5" tread-width stagger. Overall balance wasn't hugely different.

In my experience other factors are more important than "tread-width stagger" within a reasonable range.

 

[QUOTE=ZDan,Sep 15 2007, 04:34 AM]The "back-to-back testing" you did, was it between two stagger setups of the same make/model tires with approximately the same amount of treadwear and number of heat cycles?

You guys regularly take corners "to the max speed possible" only at the track I hope...

I've taken my (stock) AP1 to the track with 1" tread-width stagger and with .5" tread-width stagger.

 

Wow this is a good thread and no wonder I have been getting so much oversteer as I'm running Stagger 0.5 !!

 

Admittedly, it wasn't between same make/model of tires. However, it has been my experience that while some makes grip more or less, and have different progression characteristics, the difference between tread widths gives a predictable change to the car's handling.

Take for instance our three sets of tires. OEM RE050's (approx. 2.3" stagger), General Exclaims (1.5" stagger), and some random no-names (1" stagger), all verified by my own measurement. On my AP1 the RE050's give rather pronounced understeer, while the Exclaims are just slightly forward of neutral, and the "no-names" are just rear of neutral. The .5" difference between the two changes the balance enough to be felt when running the tires to the point of "singing".

Originally I didn't think stagger would make such a huge difference either, which is why I slapped Jenny's tires on my car for a week (the RE050's). By the end of that week I couldn't get them off my car fast enough because the damn thing handled like a Dodge Neon - pushed like a FWD sedan.

The difference between 1" and 1.5" is, as you say, not that huge. It is different enough to notice though, and does make a difference when taking corners at higher-than-rated speeds. The primary reason for keeping massive stagger is safety. Inexperienced drivers who have only driven front-biased cars all their life haven't developed the feel for a neutral-handling RWD car, and don't have the seat-time to know how to control a slide.

This is what my side of the discussion comes down to: If you're going to change stagger away from OEM spec, you're going to have a car that handles very differently from stock. Lowering stagger too far can have disastrous consequences if you aren't prepared for it (either through skill or an altered suspension setup). If you are like me, and take every corner as fast as possible (I have to, it's my job...and I love my job. ), you're going to feel what even slight variations in stagger can do. Is it Earth-shattering? No. But it can be the difference between having to slow down for a corner to prevent the car from spinning, just shooting right through, or having to trail-brake to tuck the nose in.

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing here - you say that .5" of stagger difference isn't monumental, and to that I agree. However, moving from OEM tires (what the OP was considering) to anything else means you're going to be dropping from 2.3"(ish) of stagger to less than 1.5" (depends on brand - some have as little as 1" stagger on the same 215/245 setup). That's at least .8" stagger difference, and can be upwards of 1.3" of stagger reduction. No matter how you slice it, >1" of reduced stagger is going to affect the handling quite a bit.

I've rambled on long enough. I just want people out there to be prepared for the consequences of going to a reduced-stagger setup. My preferences aside, making the wrong decision when accounting for a person's driving skill can result in their death - something I'd like to try to avoid. We all have different experience and skill behind the wheel - we all need to know our own limits and be sure not to exceed them.