Rubbing Issues, Rolled Fenders, Lowered ~1.5", -3 Camber Rear, -2 Front
05-15-2015, 12:21 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Rubbing Issues, Rolled Fenders, Lowered ~1.5", -3 Camber Rear, -2 Front
Hello there and thanks for clicking on the posting, I recently got a new wheel/tire setup, and am now experiencing rubbing with the extra width of the wheels and tires, slightly lower offsets, and wider rear tires.
--I will include what I know about my alignment at this time, since I don't have my sheet with me here. It is pretty much a "UK" alignment (never really been sure the exact specs of that..but in addition to that I'm running -2 degrees camber front, and -3 rear), so that my old setups fit without any rubbing. I feel like this is plenty of camber, I'd rather not go to -4+ in the rear, or -3+ in the front. But if someone wants to try to convince me otherwise, go ahead and I will listen.
--Neither of my old setups rubbed, and the only difference with my car since the new setup is the alignment was fixed, though the camber remains essentially the same at -2 front, and -3 rear. The setups were as follows:
AP2 V1's with 215/45/17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+ front, 245/40/17 --Even without rolled fenders these never rubbed with the current suspension setup. These tires being a/s run narrow.
Square 225/50/16 setup on AP1 sized aftermarket staggered wheels (SSR Integral A2), with allegedly S2K friendly high offsets..possibly that means +55 front, +65 rear. Tires were Hankook RS3's which run wide, and these rubbed until I had my fenders rolled. I think most of the rubbing has come from the front with this setup, but with my currently rolled fenders they have not rubbed a single time as fair as I'm aware.
New setup is as follows:
--SSR Type C RS, 17x8.0+48 x 2, SSR Type C RS 17x9.0+55 x 2, 225/45/17, 255/40/17 stagger, Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Specs
This setup is rubbing, and I believe both from the front and the rear. I know the slightly lower offsets are a large part of why, but the wheels are also a little more wide than even the AP2v1's, and the tires are one step up in size (width) to the 215/45/17, and 245/40/17 stagger. I feel like with this setup, I'm experiencing rubbing with both the fronts and the rears.
When is it rubbing? With the other two setups I am experiencing basically 0 rubbing, whereas any time I get on the freeway and hit a dip or bump in the road, unless I slam on the brakes and slow down to 30-40 mph (which I find unsafe) it will likely rub. Despite hearing this rubbing noise about 50 times if not more since I have had my new setup, my fenders seem pretty good still, and I'd like to keep them that way.
It can also rub even on a "smooth" road/surface if I take a corner hard, or even lightly if I am going over any kind of bump or surface imperfection in the road.
My solution: To solve the rubbing with this setup, I am now willing to raise my car 1/2" from where it is now, which should put the front from being about 1.25" lowered, to just .75", and the rear from being about 1.5", to around 1". I am not looking forward to the increased fender gap and closer to stock look, but do not want to risk marring up the fenders by having them pulled, I like the look of the rolled fenders. I think I'd almost prefer the look of cut fenders (if done right), over the look of pulled fenders, and this sounds rather risky to me.
***So the reason I am here making this posting, is that I have never raised my own suspension before, and had friends help me install the coilovers--I need to be closely supervised in order to do this, and am wondering if it will be nearly as difficult and time consuming as the install of the coilovers themselves?
What I'm really wondering now Is this, might this be a good excuse to go with a new coilover setup (I have always wanted KW V3's), and have Buddy Club N Specs on now, which I think ride much harsher than the stock suspension I had, or even stock struts with Swift Sport Springs. The KW V3's I've heard ride as smooth or even smoother than the stock suspension, and bounce very little (especially in comparison to the Buddy Clubs which I notice bounce a bit on the softer setting). I'm not sure they are going to be much of a performance upgrade, but they would be as good or better, while offering a much smoother ride. I am open to other suggestions for coilovers that retail $2,000 and under, but cannot afford to go with the Ohlins at this point, even spending money on KW's is not probably a wise move unless there is a big enough benefit over the buddy clubs, which seem to ride a bit harsh (especially right now with my back the way it is, though I have the suspension on a stiff setting to help avoiding bouncing leading to additional rubbing). Wondering if the KW V3 bounces like the Buddy Club N Spec suspension in the softer setting?
If it is a breeze to raise the suspension and, say takes an hour or less, I would probably opt to think about the new suspension setup a little longer, however, perhaps until at least next year. I saw a thread on raising the Buddy Club N Specs, but to me it looked a bit complicated, so I was thinking it might be nearly just as easy to install new coilovers?
In any case, I will be asking for help from local members, and recently hurt my back at the gym so no way will I be attempting this myself over the next week.
--I will include what I know about my alignment at this time, since I don't have my sheet with me here. It is pretty much a "UK" alignment (never really been sure the exact specs of that..but in addition to that I'm running -2 degrees camber front, and -3 rear), so that my old setups fit without any rubbing. I feel like this is plenty of camber, I'd rather not go to -4+ in the rear, or -3+ in the front. But if someone wants to try to convince me otherwise, go ahead and I will listen.
--Neither of my old setups rubbed, and the only difference with my car since the new setup is the alignment was fixed, though the camber remains essentially the same at -2 front, and -3 rear. The setups were as follows:
AP2 V1's with 215/45/17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+ front, 245/40/17 --Even without rolled fenders these never rubbed with the current suspension setup. These tires being a/s run narrow.
Square 225/50/16 setup on AP1 sized aftermarket staggered wheels (SSR Integral A2), with allegedly S2K friendly high offsets..possibly that means +55 front, +65 rear. Tires were Hankook RS3's which run wide, and these rubbed until I had my fenders rolled. I think most of the rubbing has come from the front with this setup, but with my currently rolled fenders they have not rubbed a single time as fair as I'm aware.
New setup is as follows:
--SSR Type C RS, 17x8.0+48 x 2, SSR Type C RS 17x9.0+55 x 2, 225/45/17, 255/40/17 stagger, Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Specs
This setup is rubbing, and I believe both from the front and the rear. I know the slightly lower offsets are a large part of why, but the wheels are also a little more wide than even the AP2v1's, and the tires are one step up in size (width) to the 215/45/17, and 245/40/17 stagger. I feel like with this setup, I'm experiencing rubbing with both the fronts and the rears.
When is it rubbing? With the other two setups I am experiencing basically 0 rubbing, whereas any time I get on the freeway and hit a dip or bump in the road, unless I slam on the brakes and slow down to 30-40 mph (which I find unsafe) it will likely rub. Despite hearing this rubbing noise about 50 times if not more since I have had my new setup, my fenders seem pretty good still, and I'd like to keep them that way.
It can also rub even on a "smooth" road/surface if I take a corner hard, or even lightly if I am going over any kind of bump or surface imperfection in the road.
My solution: To solve the rubbing with this setup, I am now willing to raise my car 1/2" from where it is now, which should put the front from being about 1.25" lowered, to just .75", and the rear from being about 1.5", to around 1". I am not looking forward to the increased fender gap and closer to stock look, but do not want to risk marring up the fenders by having them pulled, I like the look of the rolled fenders. I think I'd almost prefer the look of cut fenders (if done right), over the look of pulled fenders, and this sounds rather risky to me.
***So the reason I am here making this posting, is that I have never raised my own suspension before, and had friends help me install the coilovers--I need to be closely supervised in order to do this, and am wondering if it will be nearly as difficult and time consuming as the install of the coilovers themselves?
What I'm really wondering now Is this, might this be a good excuse to go with a new coilover setup (I have always wanted KW V3's), and have Buddy Club N Specs on now, which I think ride much harsher than the stock suspension I had, or even stock struts with Swift Sport Springs. The KW V3's I've heard ride as smooth or even smoother than the stock suspension, and bounce very little (especially in comparison to the Buddy Clubs which I notice bounce a bit on the softer setting). I'm not sure they are going to be much of a performance upgrade, but they would be as good or better, while offering a much smoother ride. I am open to other suggestions for coilovers that retail $2,000 and under, but cannot afford to go with the Ohlins at this point, even spending money on KW's is not probably a wise move unless there is a big enough benefit over the buddy clubs, which seem to ride a bit harsh (especially right now with my back the way it is, though I have the suspension on a stiff setting to help avoiding bouncing leading to additional rubbing). Wondering if the KW V3 bounces like the Buddy Club N Spec suspension in the softer setting?
If it is a breeze to raise the suspension and, say takes an hour or less, I would probably opt to think about the new suspension setup a little longer, however, perhaps until at least next year. I saw a thread on raising the Buddy Club N Specs, but to me it looked a bit complicated, so I was thinking it might be nearly just as easy to install new coilovers?
In any case, I will be asking for help from local members, and recently hurt my back at the gym so no way will I be attempting this myself over the next week.
05-16-2015, 12:21 AM
#2
Eric, your not running that aggressive of a wheel/tire set up, you should not need to raise your car to accommodate them. Your only sticking out 17mm over stock in rear, and the fender lip itself is roughly 20mm. In theory your not even aggressive enough to warrant rolling your fenders. Next time you join us for a meet I will take a closer look at your car and see the level of modification to your fenders. Your quite likely rubbing the rear bumper cover joint where it connects to the fender. This mounting tab really should be relocated and the added plastic removed/cut off as this area is the first place of contact and sometimes overlooked when rolling. Consider how aggressive my rears stick out compared to yours IE; an effective 9.5 +38(24mm) yet I dont rub. I also only run -2.6 camber back there.
The front can rub the inside liner as well due to the shape of the inner fender. Aggressive camber will compound this along with ride hight. So we will look for signs of this. If your camber alignment is quoted correct, its pretty aggressive -1 more front and rear then UK, and should not be needed either with your set up. You will find yourself flipping tires half way through their wear cycle as is.
The front can rub the inside liner as well due to the shape of the inner fender. Aggressive camber will compound this along with ride hight. So we will look for signs of this. If your camber alignment is quoted correct, its pretty aggressive -1 more front and rear then UK, and should not be needed either with your set up. You will find yourself flipping tires half way through their wear cycle as is.
05-16-2015, 08:06 AM
#3
When I was running 18x9.5 +53 (which is nearly identical to what your rears are)... my tires were rubbing the bumper tab and bumper lip... All you have to do is trim the tab and relocate the bolt.
Here:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/102...t__p__22599294
Here:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/102...t__p__22599294
05-16-2015, 01:17 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Thanks Junky, I will let you and Manga have a look first then before doing anything.
Sounds promising, I'm guessing the rear tabs may not have been relocated and that is something I'm willing to have done if not, thanks for the link d1000rr.
Sounds promising, I'm guessing the rear tabs may not have been relocated and that is something I'm willing to have done if not, thanks for the link d1000rr.
05-17-2015, 01:50 PM
#7
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