General Exclaim UHP Review
09-12-2007, 04:48 PM
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General Exclaim UHP Review
General Exclaim UHP
215/45ZR17 (7.5" tread)
245/40ZR17 (9" tread)
(Stock AP1 used for testing)
Summary:
150 miles: Great stagger balance for an AP1, moderate grip, minor squirm, moderate tire roll. "An entertaining tire that isn't good for track and other high-performance driving, but is exceptional for street and freeway cruising."
5000+ miles: Not the worst tire in the world, but I'd advise S2000 owners to stay away unless really strapped for cash.
Review:
150 miles: Let me start by saying up front that these tires are SUPER LIGHT. You can feel the difference in acceleration. A few pounds of unsprung weight at the outer edge of the rotating mass makes a world of difference. The tires will be losing even more weight as they wear, so this will probably be one of their greatest selling points.
Of course, this is where the high-fives end, because we're not talking about a true high performance tire here, we're talking about a budget tire that is meant to give a long-wearing life.
At the beginning of life these tires give adequate grip for the street, although those who are used to running OEM rubber at all times would be very disappointed in the grip offered. On the plus side, fantastic grip is rarely ever used on the street and the grip that these tires do offer is more than enough for the law-abiding among us.
There has not been any rain yet, so the wet weather grip will have to wait for testing.
A good rule of thumb I have always used in gauging tires and their grip is to take the number shown on corner caution signs, double it, and see how close I can come to (or go faster than) that number before the tires squeal. Any half-decent performance tire should be able to run those numbers without problem - and the General Exclaim UHP's do so without complaint. In some cases I have been able to maintain the full speed limit, which was more than double the caution speed posted on the signs. The maximum before tire squeal happened to be 38mph on a 15mph corner - +8mph is a darn good number to hit (and was the only corner around which they made any noise at all). As a comparison, AP2 OEM Potenza RE050's managed about 43mph on the same corner (too much understeer to go faster - nearly put me in the wall).
Tread squirm has been very minimal and absolutely manageable. Given the very deep and wide water channels carving their way around the entire tire, I expected much worse. This will get better with time, and at about 6/32nds of tread depth, the tread blocks actually get MUCH wider (water channels close to less than 50% of their initial width).
Sidewall strength has been a weak point, as was expected. The 215 fronts billow out quite a bit (balloons!), but the 245 rears stand fairly tall and proud. There isn't a huge amount of tire roll (sidewalls are short), but you do get a slight "floaty" feeling at times and short, rapid direction changes cause the car to feel like it's wallowing. Taking corners hot and heavy causes the tire to roll onto the shoulder pretty hard, showing wear onto the very edge of the shoulder blocks. Other than that, I've felt much worse and while I'd prefer some stiffer 'walls, the weight savings are welcome. Remember - these aren't track tires, they're city and highway cruisers so the soft sidewalls and light weight are actually more valuable for their intended application.
(Begin Edit)Road noise - I forgot to mention the noisiness of the tire. Contrary to comments found on Tire Rack's website, these tires are not noisy at all. Road noise is greater than a luxury tire because luxury tires are designed to be as silent as possible. However, these tires are nowhere near as noisy as some of the other performance tires I've used.(End Edit)
As a final note, I would like to mention that there is something that is causing a very noticeable vibration between 60mph and 70mph, peaking at 65mph. I have been thinking it is the nylon belts used in 80% of this tire's construction, but I can't be sure yet. Below 60mph and above 70mph there is not even a hint of vibration. Could be the tires, could be the new wheels (resonance, but doubtful), or it could be the wheel locks I installed with these new wheels. I'll know in a few months after the next tire change (will try different tires).
So there it is, "part 1" of this on-going lifespan review of the General Exclaim UHP. Also remember to take my descriptions with a grain of salt, because they are relative to this platform and only apply to these cars (AP1's especially).
Part 2!
5000+ miles: Fantastic wet grip compared to most other tires, communicates grip rather well. Never had to guess how far I could push the tires before traction would give out. Overall traction is adequate, but nothing to write home about. Certain construction flaws really started to stand out, such as the lack of any rigidity anywhere in the tire. The tire is so floppy that when examined under any psi, it looks like the tire is 'cupping', even though the wear is obviously very even. Boosting the inflation psi to 40psi helped a bit, but not enough to overcome the basic design flaw. After about 6000 miles, the rear tires had worn down to the second tier of tread blocks - so about 50% worn. These tires wear out very fast for their traction rating.
I struck a nail yesterday which destroyed one of the rears. Since I am not willing to run good tires in the back and these tires in the front, I've replaced all four. This ends my experience with these tires.
My final verdict is "do not buy." Unless you absolutely need four new tires and cannot afford at the time to buy anything decent, you should avoid these tires.
215/45ZR17 (7.5" tread)
245/40ZR17 (9" tread)
(Stock AP1 used for testing)
Summary:
150 miles: Great stagger balance for an AP1, moderate grip, minor squirm, moderate tire roll. "An entertaining tire that isn't good for track and other high-performance driving, but is exceptional for street and freeway cruising."
5000+ miles: Not the worst tire in the world, but I'd advise S2000 owners to stay away unless really strapped for cash.
Review:
150 miles: Let me start by saying up front that these tires are SUPER LIGHT. You can feel the difference in acceleration. A few pounds of unsprung weight at the outer edge of the rotating mass makes a world of difference. The tires will be losing even more weight as they wear, so this will probably be one of their greatest selling points.
Of course, this is where the high-fives end, because we're not talking about a true high performance tire here, we're talking about a budget tire that is meant to give a long-wearing life.
At the beginning of life these tires give adequate grip for the street, although those who are used to running OEM rubber at all times would be very disappointed in the grip offered. On the plus side, fantastic grip is rarely ever used on the street and the grip that these tires do offer is more than enough for the law-abiding among us.
There has not been any rain yet, so the wet weather grip will have to wait for testing.A good rule of thumb I have always used in gauging tires and their grip is to take the number shown on corner caution signs, double it, and see how close I can come to (or go faster than) that number before the tires squeal. Any half-decent performance tire should be able to run those numbers without problem - and the General Exclaim UHP's do so without complaint. In some cases I have been able to maintain the full speed limit, which was more than double the caution speed posted on the signs. The maximum before tire squeal happened to be 38mph on a 15mph corner - +8mph is a darn good number to hit (and was the only corner around which they made any noise at all). As a comparison, AP2 OEM Potenza RE050's managed about 43mph on the same corner (too much understeer to go faster - nearly put me in the wall).
Tread squirm has been very minimal and absolutely manageable. Given the very deep and wide water channels carving their way around the entire tire, I expected much worse. This will get better with time, and at about 6/32nds of tread depth, the tread blocks actually get MUCH wider (water channels close to less than 50% of their initial width).
Sidewall strength has been a weak point, as was expected. The 215 fronts billow out quite a bit (balloons!), but the 245 rears stand fairly tall and proud. There isn't a huge amount of tire roll (sidewalls are short), but you do get a slight "floaty" feeling at times and short, rapid direction changes cause the car to feel like it's wallowing. Taking corners hot and heavy causes the tire to roll onto the shoulder pretty hard, showing wear onto the very edge of the shoulder blocks. Other than that, I've felt much worse and while I'd prefer some stiffer 'walls, the weight savings are welcome. Remember - these aren't track tires, they're city and highway cruisers so the soft sidewalls and light weight are actually more valuable for their intended application.
(Begin Edit)Road noise - I forgot to mention the noisiness of the tire. Contrary to comments found on Tire Rack's website, these tires are not noisy at all. Road noise is greater than a luxury tire because luxury tires are designed to be as silent as possible. However, these tires are nowhere near as noisy as some of the other performance tires I've used.(End Edit)
As a final note, I would like to mention that there is something that is causing a very noticeable vibration between 60mph and 70mph, peaking at 65mph. I have been thinking it is the nylon belts used in 80% of this tire's construction, but I can't be sure yet. Below 60mph and above 70mph there is not even a hint of vibration. Could be the tires, could be the new wheels (resonance, but doubtful), or it could be the wheel locks I installed with these new wheels. I'll know in a few months after the next tire change (will try different tires).
So there it is, "part 1" of this on-going lifespan review of the General Exclaim UHP. Also remember to take my descriptions with a grain of salt, because they are relative to this platform and only apply to these cars (AP1's especially).
Part 2!
5000+ miles: Fantastic wet grip compared to most other tires, communicates grip rather well. Never had to guess how far I could push the tires before traction would give out. Overall traction is adequate, but nothing to write home about. Certain construction flaws really started to stand out, such as the lack of any rigidity anywhere in the tire. The tire is so floppy that when examined under any psi, it looks like the tire is 'cupping', even though the wear is obviously very even. Boosting the inflation psi to 40psi helped a bit, but not enough to overcome the basic design flaw. After about 6000 miles, the rear tires had worn down to the second tier of tread blocks - so about 50% worn. These tires wear out very fast for their traction rating.
I struck a nail yesterday which destroyed one of the rears. Since I am not willing to run good tires in the back and these tires in the front, I've replaced all four. This ends my experience with these tires.
My final verdict is "do not buy." Unless you absolutely need four new tires and cannot afford at the time to buy anything decent, you should avoid these tires.
11-09-2007, 05:02 PM
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Running Toyo Proxes T1-R's now (215/245).
I've used T1-R's before on my other car and loved 'em, but after running garbage tires for several months I had forgotten what decent tires felt like. What a difference!
Of course, for twice the price, you'd expect as much...
I actually had high hopes for the Exclaims as a high-mileage low-cost alternative for those of us who do lots of driving, and are willing to sacrifice some traction and handling for longevity. Turns out that they wear out almost as fast as RE050's, give half the dry traction (but twice the wet traction), and give you the feeling that you're driving on marshmallows. The reason I didn't notice any tread squirm when they were new is that they are so sloppy, the tire drift covers it up.
Oh well. I got my use out of them. I've still got the three remaining "good" tires sitting in my garage as emergency spares.
I almost think that they'd make a good "beginner" tire. Kinda sticky, very forgiving, communicative, equal traction in wet and dry, yet very cheap. Seems like the perfect combination for somebody who hasn't quite figured out RWD mechanics yet and wants a gentle introduction. The Exclaims won't take you to the edge and then let you go flying like RE050's and other high performance tires can do. They'll instead start to give a little, then squeal, then give a lot before throwing you off the road, yet their re-uptake of traction is quick and easy to control.
But they're SO DARN SLOPPY.
Seriously - don't buy these tires for use on an S2000. You'll bottom out and scrape on every bump/driveway, and they really kill the sharp handling of the S, even on an AP1.
If only they lasted longer than 15000 miles...
I've used T1-R's before on my other car and loved 'em, but after running garbage tires for several months I had forgotten what decent tires felt like. What a difference!
Of course, for twice the price, you'd expect as much...
I actually had high hopes for the Exclaims as a high-mileage low-cost alternative for those of us who do lots of driving, and are willing to sacrifice some traction and handling for longevity. Turns out that they wear out almost as fast as RE050's, give half the dry traction (but twice the wet traction), and give you the feeling that you're driving on marshmallows. The reason I didn't notice any tread squirm when they were new is that they are so sloppy, the tire drift covers it up.
Oh well. I got my use out of them. I've still got the three remaining "good" tires sitting in my garage as emergency spares.
I almost think that they'd make a good "beginner" tire. Kinda sticky, very forgiving, communicative, equal traction in wet and dry, yet very cheap. Seems like the perfect combination for somebody who hasn't quite figured out RWD mechanics yet and wants a gentle introduction. The Exclaims won't take you to the edge and then let you go flying like RE050's and other high performance tires can do. They'll instead start to give a little, then squeal, then give a lot before throwing you off the road, yet their re-uptake of traction is quick and easy to control.
But they're SO DARN SLOPPY.
Seriously - don't buy these tires for use on an S2000. You'll bottom out and scrape on every bump/driveway, and they really kill the sharp handling of the S, even on an AP1.
If only they lasted longer than 15000 miles...
11-10-2007, 12:37 PM
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I DEFINITELY AGREE!!!! I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS TIRE!!!
When I bought my S2k at CarMax these tires were on them. Syncho's review is unbiased, and pretty much hits the nail right on the head. I too, have made the transition of General Exclaim UHP to Toyo Proxes T1R, and the difference is simply night and day.
The General Exclaim UHP (don't get me wrong) is not a junk tire. I would consider putting these on my Acura CL (other car), because its soft, quiet, and has pretty reliable treadlife. But for a nimble car like the S2000 made to handle corners, this tire even with a coilover set simply doesn't cut it. I'm sure most will agree especially if they go from the Bridgestone's which the car comes with, and switches them out with these... They're just too soft, have poor sidewall support, and mediocre grip for this car.
If you use the S2k as a daily, and want something very comfortable, then this is it. But if this is a weekend joyride as it is for me, then please do yourself a favor, spend the extra cash and get a better tire.
When I bought my S2k at CarMax these tires were on them. Syncho's review is unbiased, and pretty much hits the nail right on the head. I too, have made the transition of General Exclaim UHP to Toyo Proxes T1R, and the difference is simply night and day.
The General Exclaim UHP (don't get me wrong) is not a junk tire. I would consider putting these on my Acura CL (other car), because its soft, quiet, and has pretty reliable treadlife. But for a nimble car like the S2000 made to handle corners, this tire even with a coilover set simply doesn't cut it. I'm sure most will agree especially if they go from the Bridgestone's which the car comes with, and switches them out with these... They're just too soft, have poor sidewall support, and mediocre grip for this car.
If you use the S2k as a daily, and want something very comfortable, then this is it. But if this is a weekend joyride as it is for me, then please do yourself a favor, spend the extra cash and get a better tire.
11-11-2007, 03:36 PM
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Thanks for the great review.
I have had these tires on my s for about 8k miles myself. I daily drive and do not track or autocross the car. I do like to drive aggressive roads, but I generally don't push the limits by any stretch either.
My observations of the wear on the tire is quite positive actually. After the 8k I have put on them, I still have plenty of meat left. I will try to find my gage and get a measurement on it.
I took the tires down to the dragon when they were just broken in. I had no problem keeping up with other drivers that had much better tires than I. This is not to say that I was the fastest out there, because I certainly was not.
Since I drive in the New England winter, I had been considering getting a set of snowies this year. The Tire Rack website states that they don't recommend the Exclaim for freezing temps, however I checked the General website and they have the Exclaim listed as an all season and tout it's handling ability "in all conditions". they also list the tire as "all season" in the literature.
I am wondering if the tires will be safe for driving through the winter. I don't plan on heading out in 6" of snow, but if I get caught in a storm, I don't want to be struck either. Any comments on the all season capabilities of these tires?
Overall, I woulds say that these are a great tire if you want a brand new set of four tires and don't want to spend a ton. this is providing that you have no need for a tire that has superior grip. This tire is actually fun, as I can more easily break the arse loose when I want to and have no fear of the car biting me back.
I am still undecided if I would buy again...
I have had these tires on my s for about 8k miles myself. I daily drive and do not track or autocross the car. I do like to drive aggressive roads, but I generally don't push the limits by any stretch either.
My observations of the wear on the tire is quite positive actually. After the 8k I have put on them, I still have plenty of meat left. I will try to find my gage and get a measurement on it.
I took the tires down to the dragon when they were just broken in. I had no problem keeping up with other drivers that had much better tires than I. This is not to say that I was the fastest out there, because I certainly was not.
Since I drive in the New England winter, I had been considering getting a set of snowies this year. The Tire Rack website states that they don't recommend the Exclaim for freezing temps, however I checked the General website and they have the Exclaim listed as an all season and tout it's handling ability "in all conditions". they also list the tire as "all season" in the literature.
I am wondering if the tires will be safe for driving through the winter. I don't plan on heading out in 6" of snow, but if I get caught in a storm, I don't want to be struck either. Any comments on the all season capabilities of these tires?
Overall, I woulds say that these are a great tire if you want a brand new set of four tires and don't want to spend a ton. this is providing that you have no need for a tire that has superior grip. This tire is actually fun, as I can more easily break the arse loose when I want to and have no fear of the car biting me back.
I am still undecided if I would buy again...
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