ZDan

Think about what you have at the contact patch on a "normal tire" at 3* negative camber. The contact patch is flat on the ground, but the wheel/tire rotational axis is at 3* to the ground. If you made a line across the widest part of the contact patch, as the tire rolled around this would describe a cone.

If you had a tire with 3* of "built-in" camber, and ran zero wheel camber, then every point on the contact patch would actually be at the same radius from the wheel/tire axis. No scrub.

The idea of a camber tire would NOT be to have the tire "flat on the ground when static", quite the contrary! If, say, 3* of static camber is optimal for handling performance, having a camber tire and reducing the amount of camber at the wheel by the amount of built-in tire camber, while having the same effective tire camber at the ground should work.

Seems like the idea has a lot of merit to me, in fact I have wondered in the past why no one was doing this, or if they actually WERE doing it on street/track tires that are asymmetrical (one side specified to be mounted as the OUTSIDE sidewall).

ZDan

Reading through some of the above posts, and the title of this thread, I think some of you have the wrong idea about how a camber tire would be mounted. You wouldn't mount it with the "tall" sidewall on the outside, to give a "flat" contact patch with a lot of wheel camber. You would mount it with the SHORT sidewall on the outside, so you could run less wheel camber while still having effective tire camber at the ground. I.e., you'd still be running on the inside edge of the tire while going straight, and during cornering you'd lay more of the tire's footprint down on the ground.

The "hellaflush" crowd might, of course, run even more wheel camber and mount them backwards! But that wouldn't be the intent. Hellafunctional crowd would run them the "right" way and run less negative camber at the wheels.

GrandMasterKhan

That doesn't sound right Dan.

From what I read on their website the tall sidewalk goes on the outside. So a wheel set at 2degrees camber and a two degree tire would allow 100% contact patch while driving straight instead of on a square tire where the inside edge would see more pressure than the outside edge.

RedCelica

the charts on their website make me lmao

GrandMasterKhan

Square tires end up in a conical shape when installed aggrssive camber. The inside sidewall will have more weight upon it. Thus the inner sidewall will be compressed more than the outside. As such the contact patch is not square.

Camber tires would have a complete contact patch while going straight. However I wonder what happens during harder cornering when the camber of the wheel naturally wants to go positive. Will that outside edge take more abuse? Or will the entire contact patch simply do more work. (kinda like a banked turn provides more cornering stabilty)

NFR_AP2

this seems like it would benefit people who are lowering their daily drivers more than anything else

GrandMasterKhan

What about what they say a out toe and square tires? The s2000 will wear the front tires quiet badly due to toe wear.

Camber tires allow zero or even podiums toe while still tracking straight without scrubbing since a conical shape will naturally turn inward.

You would not run a normal alignment with these tires. However I don't think they are intended to add camber while having the wheels set to zero camber.

They seem to be designed with the idea of 2degree camber, zero/positive toe and a 2degree camber tire. Drives straight and no camber wear.

No unusual inner sidewall compression as with normal tires.

ZDan

I-b-dam, looking at their website it's unclear exactly WHAT they're talking about:
"an outside sidewall which is greater in height than an inside sidewall
and a tread surface forming an obtuse angle with said outside sidewall"

That doesn't make any sense! If the outside sidewall height is TALLER, then the tread would form an *acute* angle with the outside sidewall.

But they go on to say:
"adding negative camber to said independent suspension such that said tire tread surface is substantially parallel to a road surface."

WHA?! That sounds exactly opposite what should work!

For a long time I've thought a "cambered tire" with the outside sidewall height SHORTER than inside side wall height, would make a lot of sense. Then you can run less camber at the wheel.

These guys are actually talking about cambering the tire the WRONG way, and adding MORE negative camber at the wheel?

Seems nuts.

I think it's a good idea, but this looks to be a completely bassackwards embodiment!

ZDan

Then again, if you *do* camber the tire the "wrong" way, and run even more negative camber at the wheel, you get the benefit of the sidewalls being STIFFER in the direction of lateral loads, and more compliant in the direction of vertical loads.

May be some method to the madness here after all.

Maybe...

Or maybe there's a damn good reason why race tires are still "square"!

deepbluejh

I can see this trend passing very quickly.