BFG Rival Review
#1
BFG Rival Review
So I have logged a few hundred street miles and one full track day with my new BFG rivals. I am on AP2v1 rims with OEM sizes. There is not much info out there for these tires so I figured I would share my thoughts.
Street: Overall a good street tire, low noise and very usable grip even at lower temps. The ride is decent, and wet driving is limited but I had no issues. There have been really no drawbacks compared to my all season Goodyears I came from. I would question how good these would be in heavy rain. Because of this I would say no as a daily driver, but definitely for a weekend or fun car. I would not be panicked if caught in the rain. No report on wear yet.
Track: I did a full track day yesterday and I learned a lot about how different tires work. Initially I was no faster with these tires than with the all seasons which bothered me. The BFGs started to howl early on corner entry and had me tracking out a lot to quiet them down. I aired them down and ended up a 36psi hot for all four tires. I am new to tracking the S2000 but I have experience karting. With a kart smooth is key, scrubbing either tires will cost you time and this is how I drive the S2000. With the all-seasons it was more like a kart, once the tires started scrubbing they lost grip and you slowed down. This was not the case with the Rivals. The noise coming from the tire was just telling you that you are approaching the high grip zone. This window is huge, as these tires not only tolerate large slip angles, it seems they work better. You really need to drive these tires aggressively to get the most out of them. They don't need precision or smooth inputs, just scrub them hard and the grip goes up. The only issue is that as you do approach and go beyond the limit, it is difficult to tell where the peak grip actually is. Its actually like a plateau, not a peak. Bottom line, is I started at 1 min 38 sec per lap, by the end of the day I was running close to 1:30s. My best with the all seasons was 1:36.
Summary:
Positive
Great ride
Low NVH
Usable street grip
Low cost
Wide grip range for the track
Confidence inspiring grip level (perfect for beginners)
No noticeable wear after one track day
Negative
Would not use in heavy rain
Tire does not benefit precise or smooth drivers
Masks overaggressive driving mistakes
Skilled drivers will likely not benefit from these tires as compared to more demanding extreme tires (Dunlop's, RS3)
Overall I can see why this tire is not as popular with the S2k track crowd. The S2000 is a drivers car that needs to be driven with precision to get the benefits. A laser sharp tire can yield better results here, and in the right hands makes the S2k a better car. On the track the Rival is a perfect tire for building confidence or for very aggressive drivers, looking to point and shoot. Not the fastest but easy to work with. Plus it turns out to be a great street tire.
Five stars for casual track guys looking for a safe tire to go fast. Or for street guys looking for a very aggressive summer tire.
Three stars for a more advanced track driver who is not looking for huge slip angles and wants to be on the edge of the tire to go fast. Think dedicated track car.
Street: Overall a good street tire, low noise and very usable grip even at lower temps. The ride is decent, and wet driving is limited but I had no issues. There have been really no drawbacks compared to my all season Goodyears I came from. I would question how good these would be in heavy rain. Because of this I would say no as a daily driver, but definitely for a weekend or fun car. I would not be panicked if caught in the rain. No report on wear yet.
Track: I did a full track day yesterday and I learned a lot about how different tires work. Initially I was no faster with these tires than with the all seasons which bothered me. The BFGs started to howl early on corner entry and had me tracking out a lot to quiet them down. I aired them down and ended up a 36psi hot for all four tires. I am new to tracking the S2000 but I have experience karting. With a kart smooth is key, scrubbing either tires will cost you time and this is how I drive the S2000. With the all-seasons it was more like a kart, once the tires started scrubbing they lost grip and you slowed down. This was not the case with the Rivals. The noise coming from the tire was just telling you that you are approaching the high grip zone. This window is huge, as these tires not only tolerate large slip angles, it seems they work better. You really need to drive these tires aggressively to get the most out of them. They don't need precision or smooth inputs, just scrub them hard and the grip goes up. The only issue is that as you do approach and go beyond the limit, it is difficult to tell where the peak grip actually is. Its actually like a plateau, not a peak. Bottom line, is I started at 1 min 38 sec per lap, by the end of the day I was running close to 1:30s. My best with the all seasons was 1:36.
Summary:
Positive
Great ride
Low NVH
Usable street grip
Low cost
Wide grip range for the track
Confidence inspiring grip level (perfect for beginners)
No noticeable wear after one track day
Negative
Would not use in heavy rain
Tire does not benefit precise or smooth drivers
Masks overaggressive driving mistakes
Skilled drivers will likely not benefit from these tires as compared to more demanding extreme tires (Dunlop's, RS3)
Overall I can see why this tire is not as popular with the S2k track crowd. The S2000 is a drivers car that needs to be driven with precision to get the benefits. A laser sharp tire can yield better results here, and in the right hands makes the S2k a better car. On the track the Rival is a perfect tire for building confidence or for very aggressive drivers, looking to point and shoot. Not the fastest but easy to work with. Plus it turns out to be a great street tire.
Five stars for casual track guys looking for a safe tire to go fast. Or for street guys looking for a very aggressive summer tire.
Three stars for a more advanced track driver who is not looking for huge slip angles and wants to be on the edge of the tire to go fast. Think dedicated track car.
#3
Curious as well and am watching on a few autox forums. I bought the original Rivals when I was still autocrossing a FWD car, based on the rave reviews in grassroots and other magazines. Hated them. Barely better in the rain than the original RS3 (which is not good in the rain), longitudinal grip was miserable, which makes launching an FWD even harder than normal and I was not really all that impressed with the overall grip even in the dry. Good, but I felt at least on a FWD car the RS3 was hands down better and handled heat better. I was ready to sell mine after a few events. I saw two people put them up for sale during spring nats in Lincoln after not having as good of luck with them.
I have not, however, driven them on the S2000 or tried the new compound, which I am hoping to hear more about. I assume you have the new Rival S?
Initial feedback from local autocrossers is that the BFG Rival S is a lot more vague feeling and harder to feel the limit. Lateral grip seems a bit better possibly than the old Rival. Some tried 3 sets of tires at one event and found that the RE-71 'stones were faster on the same car and course. People felt that they had more confidence in the Dunlops as they communicated more and had great response.
Right now, they are talking a couple of tenths on them, not in a mid summer event on a few cars, so that data is based on limited samples. But so far I am hearing that the Rivals seem to be more vague in feel for sure.
I have ZII star specs on mine (255 square setup) and have had it out for an hour of runs while instructing at our novice school on a 60 degree day. I was very impressed. Good feel, great response and tons of grip. I have not had them out on a hot day, but after an hour of runs (a bit more condensed than a real event) I could feel them getting greasy, so I expect to have to spray them between runs during mid summer events.
I have not, however, driven them on the S2000 or tried the new compound, which I am hoping to hear more about. I assume you have the new Rival S?
Initial feedback from local autocrossers is that the BFG Rival S is a lot more vague feeling and harder to feel the limit. Lateral grip seems a bit better possibly than the old Rival. Some tried 3 sets of tires at one event and found that the RE-71 'stones were faster on the same car and course. People felt that they had more confidence in the Dunlops as they communicated more and had great response.
Right now, they are talking a couple of tenths on them, not in a mid summer event on a few cars, so that data is based on limited samples. But so far I am hearing that the Rivals seem to be more vague in feel for sure.
I have ZII star specs on mine (255 square setup) and have had it out for an hour of runs while instructing at our novice school on a 60 degree day. I was very impressed. Good feel, great response and tons of grip. I have not had them out on a hot day, but after an hour of runs (a bit more condensed than a real event) I could feel them getting greasy, so I expect to have to spray them between runs during mid summer events.
#4
Heat did not seem to be an issue. The compound was stable all day. After a cool down lap, and rolling through the paddock for 30 seconds indicated about 130* surface temp with the inferred gun.
These are the original Rivals.
These are the original Rivals.
#5
On the original Rivals I thought they did good with heat as you are seeing. My application was autocross, so not dealing with the sustained heat like on a track, but even at test n tunes with back to back runs in a nose heavy FWD they help up well to it even on 90 degree + days.
Tires are pretty platform dependent though, so results may vary on different cars.
Tires are pretty platform dependent though, so results may vary on different cars.
#6
Update:
Second track day on the Rivals. I got them much hotter on this track day. Ambient temps were much higher too. I didn't mess with the pressures and my temp gun died so I have no data. I can say I started around 35psi and ended around 38 psi. I was on a different track and a new suspension so can't make a direct comparison to the above. However, these tires were very sticky and predictable all day. No noise at all and strangely more rear break away then front. But very gradual as before. The instructor at first thought the stability control was intervening, but really it was just the slow break away of the tires. You just recognize the rotation but it almost regains grip on its own. Again, very forgiving tire.
As we got faster, I think I did eventually hit the limit of the tires. At the end of the last session chasing a faster car, the tires were being pushed hard. The driver in front did give me the point on the inside of a corner. I had to tighten up inside the race line and the steering went light and the car pushed out a little. Coming into the next braking zone the ABS engaged and had not been all day. I think the front tires got a little greasy. After backing down to 8/10s its seems like most of the traction came back. I am also running just a 215/45 in the front, a larger tire probably would have dealt with the heat better.
Second track day on the Rivals. I got them much hotter on this track day. Ambient temps were much higher too. I didn't mess with the pressures and my temp gun died so I have no data. I can say I started around 35psi and ended around 38 psi. I was on a different track and a new suspension so can't make a direct comparison to the above. However, these tires were very sticky and predictable all day. No noise at all and strangely more rear break away then front. But very gradual as before. The instructor at first thought the stability control was intervening, but really it was just the slow break away of the tires. You just recognize the rotation but it almost regains grip on its own. Again, very forgiving tire.
As we got faster, I think I did eventually hit the limit of the tires. At the end of the last session chasing a faster car, the tires were being pushed hard. The driver in front did give me the point on the inside of a corner. I had to tighten up inside the race line and the steering went light and the car pushed out a little. Coming into the next braking zone the ABS engaged and had not been all day. I think the front tires got a little greasy. After backing down to 8/10s its seems like most of the traction came back. I am also running just a 215/45 in the front, a larger tire probably would have dealt with the heat better.
#7
I've been considering trying these as a an AutoX & HPDE tire in place of the RS3V2's, as TireRak has been discounting the 2013 productions runs in the 245 size. Can't find conclusive evidence that they will be faster at either HPDE or AutoX (than the rs3v2). Also curious on heat tolerance comparison. They seem to drive the same - big slip angles
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#8
Another thing is I am really not even running much camber. -1 in the front and -1.7 in the rear. I am sure with more camber the tires would deal with the heat better.
The big slip angle and slow break away is a double edged sword. In some ways it feels like you can do no wrong with these tires because they allow you to get over your head and easily come back. The downside is you need to be very sensitive to figure out what the tire is doing. It's very difficult for me to tell if the tire is on peak grip, past peak, or coming back to peak...
In some ways it's better not to think about it and just drop the hammer. You will know, when the finally overheat.
I think for most track day guys this tires forgiving nature is the ticket. Probably not the grippiest tire but close, with nice manners. Plus it looks cool. For the price I paid this tire is a no brainier.
The big slip angle and slow break away is a double edged sword. In some ways it feels like you can do no wrong with these tires because they allow you to get over your head and easily come back. The downside is you need to be very sensitive to figure out what the tire is doing. It's very difficult for me to tell if the tire is on peak grip, past peak, or coming back to peak...
In some ways it's better not to think about it and just drop the hammer. You will know, when the finally overheat.
I think for most track day guys this tires forgiving nature is the ticket. Probably not the grippiest tire but close, with nice manners. Plus it looks cool. For the price I paid this tire is a no brainier.
#9
I know that each track, driver, day is different but when I was regularly running laps one of the issues I had to watch for was pressures that were too high. They may feel more stable at higher pressures but offer less ultimate traction. I would not roll out with cold pressures above 30 as it would easily climb 10+ pounds resulting in greasy traction when pushed hard at times.
Of course short runs (autocross) or less demanding tracks won't see as big a rise. I know that those that could log pressures over a lap found that pressures in all four tires would vary greatly with excessive pressures being an intermittent problem especially with high ambient.
Of course short runs (autocross) or less demanding tracks won't see as big a rise. I know that those that could log pressures over a lap found that pressures in all four tires would vary greatly with excessive pressures being an intermittent problem especially with high ambient.
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