That’s surprising, first I’ve heard of 17x9.5 +51 needing limiters as the inset number is nowhere near that of the 17x10 +55, where do they rub? Is it the actual rim or sidewall/tire and if so what size tires? There are so many factors I suppose and would assume the majority of 17x9.5 +51 don’t rub on the inside without limiters? Are they rubbing on spring perch/collar or something else?

I’m running offset lower ball joints.

what is the most inset we can run without any danger of rubbing on the inside with say a typical 255/40?

 

The inner barrels of my wheels rub one of the control arms. I think it's the lower but I'm not 100%. It doesn't really matter which, it's rubbing. I didn't want to do steering limiters but it really isn't that big of a deal. I doubt it'll really limit much anyways. Too bad they weren't limited before messing up my wheels.

When you're at the limits, all cars and setups are slightly different. How much you adjust the adjustable joint vs. the arm will change fitment. There is no straightforward answer to that question. You're going to have to roll your fenders and stuff. What difference does steering limiters make at that point? They can be removed easily too.

 

Limiters don’t make much difference but I’m just surprised 17x9.5 +51 have inner rubbing issues.



here is an interesting chart someone made on Reddit for the S2000 regarding approximate wheel fitment.

 

The rubbing will be due to his SPC upper ball joints. I had 17x10+55 SA72R with J's S2 and I just barely rubbed on the right side at full lock. I didn't use a steering limiter, instead I cut a piece of fuel hose and zip tied it to my upper control arm so it wouldn't be metal on metal in the event I forgot not to go full lock.
I run limiters now with my Ikeya formula upper arms as they are wider than stock with my 17x10+44 wheels. They cleared the stock arms just fine but I've seen too many broken arms with extended ball joints so I wanted to put the stock joints back in and go with Ikeya upper arms.

I use these, two on each side https://www.cjponyparts.com/steering...2004/p/HW4651/

 

I believe 17x9.5+51 and 17x10+55 should have about the same outward protrusion at the wheel lip however I imagine the 17x10+55 should still be an easier fit than the former. Though the side wall stretches out to the same place the tread block should sit further inboard of the fender and have better general clearance outside of extreme compression. The stretch on the 10 will widen the tread width marginally but should still be manageable.

Food for thought several people I've talked to running Apex 17x10+48 run SPC or offset bushings to get extra clearance. The SPC is variable but offset bushings should get you 7-8mm clearance which should have similar fender clearance to the SA72R.

My T7 17x9.5+51 compared to Apex 17x10+48





Static camber is -3.5 with lower offset camber joints. Roughly 1 finger gap. Fenders rolled but not pulled. Passenger fender is pretty good condition. I've kissed the fender slightly on the driver side with a different wheel. Last photo is with the sway bar disconnected and the front wheel jacked up to approach the fender. I didn't rub driving around town but obviously it's hellaflush and that doesn't cut it at the track so I'll be getting UCA adjustment. But I wanted to provide some visual reference to approximate from because I'd say that moving the top of the wheel 7mm inboard should give you decent clearance based on my spitballing in reference to SA72R vs Apex. I don't have any current rubbing with the T7s at the track though I have to be careful with drive way curbs and gutters near full lock.

 

Yup. I've been seeing this point of failure more recently. I've seen this twice now, and have heard about it in other threads and regions more recently. It's a more recent failure that i've only started seeing and hearing about within the last 4 years or so.



I went the other route, and kept the OEM arms and went with the Baero (origin) offset bushing for the upper control arm. I went with Baero as they have tighter tolerances than Origin and have a set screw to prevent slipping.

As we start pushing the limits on wide track wheels and 200TW tires now being much grippier than any current 100TW tire, there's a lot more stress being exerted on parts.

 

At what point do us AP1 owners need to start gusseting our UCA pickups even if we aren't running slicks?

 

If you're doing track days - now. Locals were ripping out the UCA picks back in the day on NT-01s with 255s on 17x9s. Every current 200TW tire is grippier than an NT-01, including RS-4s. The top tier 200TW tires are 1.5s to 2s faster per lap (than an NT-01) on a 2.7 mile course where sub-2:00 is considered decently fast. Though that bar is now more along the lines of sub-1:57 for streetable s2ks that aren't completely stripped out and still have functional HVAC.

 

So, to get this more back on topic and provide useful information for @APEX Wheels .

I compiled a select wheel list that currently exists that you can buy now in the 17x9 / 9.5 / 10" range. These are what I would consider track oriented wheels - bbk clearance, useable offsets for OEM fenders (rolled), and reputable enough construction, whether cast or forged (mostly forged). I didn't put weights since that info was harder find - general is that the forged wheels are 15-16 lbs. and the cast wheels are 18-20 lbs. There probably also a key focus here most of us on maintaining OEM fenders (with varying opinions on how much roll/pull is acceptable). Once you go wide body fenders up front and are willing to cut the rear for over-fenders, the wheel option opens up quite a bit.

It gives a good overview of where the gaps are, namely, options for a sub $2k wheel (sub $1800 wheel if you want to factor tax and shipping in the to your porch price), and options for anything in the 18" range that is useable are the main gaps, unless going custom. I'm almost tempted to go try a custom set of forgestars for $2100 (evasive pricing), but they don't exactly have a good reputation for track durability - i'm sure everyone has seen Chris Wiita's F14s wheel failure at buttonwillow at bus-stop/riverside.


Any other wheel that should be added to this list for notable consideration - it's not meant to be all inclusive, but to give a high-level overview of the track wheel market for S2ks.

 

The CE28 also comes in a unicorn 18x10+58 spec that's 935 a pop. I'm not sure the exact intended use as +58 is getting border line for OEM fenders, especially for 255 stretched on a 10 but I imagine you can push 265-275s without too much difficulty if you have rolled fenders and don't mind the muffin topped tires.