DDonovan

I have a question about the handling of our cars. I took my car in for alignment and they did a good job. Before the alignment and after I feel like when I hit bumps (like manhole covers and the sort), that the rear end of my car seems to bump me around alot. It isn't just that it is stiff or that it roles..., the best way I can put this is it is like I am being pushed from side to side like the tires are fighting one another...,

If you were to line up two groups of people say five in each line and separate them by about 4 feet, then you run down between those two lines and every person gave you a shove..., that is kind of what it feels like but not that exaggerated.

Does anyone know what I mean and is this normal? I have had the suspension looked at and as I say the alignment. I am wondering if this is just an effect of the camber/tow in that we have?

SumAznGuy

What is your new alignment specs?

This is an issue with the early AP1's but is still an issue on the AP2's. On the rear of the car, when the suspension compresses, the rear wheels will increase toe-out. So when you have the car set up with 0 toe, when the suspension compresses, the wheels will toe out and if there is uneven grip levels, the car will rock side to side.

I have the same issue except I am running a lot of toe-in.

phizzak.s2k

does the toe in have any effect on your tirewear?

SumAznGuy

A little. the tires are scrubbing while they rotate, but I rather have that happen as opposed to getting rear toe-out in the most inopportune time.

BKL

During rear compression the car toe-ins more, not out.

DDonovan

Thanks and that is exactly what it feels like. I did get a computer print out of the new settings so I will check and post them. The tire wear is a bit off center.

When I got a slow leak fixed the person repairing the tire noticed the wear off center and told me to check the alignment which I did. I took it to a place that specialized in Honda and does the alignment for Campus Honda. They explained it is normal and more noticeable on our cars because of the toe in and camber. Our tires are softer and sticker than most so the wear becomes more evident.

Basically what happens is if you aggressively go into a corner the wheels will even out and you end up with more tire on the road. That is for the backs..., the fronts you will notice make your steering wheel snap back t center quickly.

I was told by the guy doing the alignment the above and he said it is good as you get more traction but it is bad as it causes our tires to wear quicker.

604S2000

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44573

SumAznGuy

Not according to what all the autoxer's and my butt dyno is telling me.

SumAznGuy

Not sure if you understood the guy correctly or he fed you the wrong info.
Lets start with static camber. Negative camber means the top of the tires are pointed towards the middle of the car, and static camber refers to the amount of camber when the car is sitting. Wwhen you are cornering, the tire will flex due to the forces of the moving vehicle and tire grip. If a car has little camber, you end up driving on the sidewall. With negative camber, you will use more of the tire which means more contact patch, both front and rear.
Caster is only adjustable on the fronts, and it makes good sense. Caster is how far forward or backwards the wheel is in the wheel well. More caster means the wheel is more towards the front of the car, and when you turn the wheels, the wheels will have more negative camber. Think of a bicycle, and then one of those cruiser bikes with the really long front forks and skinny tires.
The S2000 has independant suspension and under suspension compression, you will get more negative camber, which is a good thing. Add in the additional negative camber fromt the positive caster, and you should get the idea.
And more caster makes the car more stable on the highways, and supposedly makes the steering wheel return to center quicker.

Toe-out is better for the fronts because it will improve turn in feel. Bad side is the 2 tires are fighting against each other. One is trying to go right while the other is trying to go left, thus will affect tire wear. Add in negative camber, and you wear out the insides of your tires pretty quickly if the alignment is wrong. Toe out is bad on a the rear of a rwd car because this will encourage the rear of the car to rotate, which can be very dangerous. Toe-in is the same when it comes to tire wear because now the tires are doing the opposite of toe-out but still causing extra tire wear from the "scrubbing".

Bad sides to lots of negative camber is less contract patch when you are accelerating in a straight line and when you are braking.

Get the alignment print out and post the specs and we can go from there.

BKL

It has been well-documented that for our s2000 a suspension compression results in toe in.

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...=265257&st=100

Scroll around. Theres a lot of info there where the developers of the TC Design BSK were discussing the amount of toe in changes they measured during suspension compression.