Quarter mile carnage
10-26-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quarter mile carnage
Hi my fellow Midwesterners,
I figured I would post this here because By the end of this story, I would like some recommendations.
I called up my friend with an 2009 Accord V6 sedan today and we decided to head over to GLD to try our hands at a little quarter mile fun.
Yes, I know my S is not made for straight line acceleration, but I was curious what my 2003 with 49k miles, K&N FIPK and Skunk 2 cat back would do.
After all, it felt quick and my curiosity got the best of me!
Also, we are both 47 years old and still love the need for speed.
His 4 door automatic Accord has a throttle body spacer,cat delete with cat back, ported intake runners and under drive pulley.
Heading up there on the highway, (in Mexico of course), we did several highway pulls from around 60-100 with the same results every time. I would slightly pull him about 1/2 car length, which Was what I expected. I figured with a v6 with more factory HP and torque and his given mods, that it would be very close and it was. I thought once we got on the track, I would blow him off the line and beat him by 3-4 tenths.
Fast forward to the first race...
I'm aware that my stock rear end is fragile from the factory and that with my newer sticky Advan AD-08's, that a clutch drop would not be appropriate. So I decided I would bring the RPM's up to around 5500 and slowly let the clutch out as I added throttle. This is when Things got bad.
I did not give a crap about my reaction time and as I have a considerable amount of quarter mile passes with different cars in my past, I know the clock does not start until I start moving, so my plan was to let the light turn green and take my time launching it as stated only being concerned with my total time.
I brought her to around 5500 and let the clutch out at a reasonable rate (not dumping it, to avoid breakage) while at the same time mashing the accelerator to the floor.
Needless to say, my car experienced what I believe to be clutch slip. The RPM's climbed while my acceration didn't. I let off the throttle and then got back in the gas. The slip seemed to stop and my car took off. The result was a 15.390 at 93.36 mph with a 60' time of 2.578.
The clutch slip shocked me because my clutch was adjusted properly and I had never had any slippage at all before (although I had never launched it that hard before)
I believe my clutch is original and thought that by not dumping it, that it would be fine. I was way wrong.
I made one more pass about a half hour later and soft launched it at around 2500 and then mashed the gas with no slippage and ran a 15.339 at 94.42 mph with a 60' time of 2.609.
My friends best run of the two was 15.172.
I believe my slippage is an indication of a weak original clutch, or was my technique a bad choice?
My plans were to get a Puddymod 4:57 diff and installing it, but obviously, I have to address this clutch issue first.
I would like your opinions on the causes of my slippage and if you think my clutch is weak and needs replacing? Please give me some recommendations on clutch choices and installers in a 50 mile radius of Schaumburg please.
I plan on tracking my car occasionally with very limited quarter mile action in my future, but I would want a clutch that would be strong enough to easily handle some 6000 rpm launches with my future 4:57 Puddymod diff.
My car is not my daily driver and I will only be putting about 2-3k miles a year on her.
Anyway, thanks for taking your time reading this and I looked forward to your feedback!
Randy
I figured I would post this here because By the end of this story, I would like some recommendations.
I called up my friend with an 2009 Accord V6 sedan today and we decided to head over to GLD to try our hands at a little quarter mile fun.
Yes, I know my S is not made for straight line acceleration, but I was curious what my 2003 with 49k miles, K&N FIPK and Skunk 2 cat back would do.
After all, it felt quick and my curiosity got the best of me!
Also, we are both 47 years old and still love the need for speed.
His 4 door automatic Accord has a throttle body spacer,cat delete with cat back, ported intake runners and under drive pulley.
Heading up there on the highway, (in Mexico of course), we did several highway pulls from around 60-100 with the same results every time. I would slightly pull him about 1/2 car length, which Was what I expected. I figured with a v6 with more factory HP and torque and his given mods, that it would be very close and it was. I thought once we got on the track, I would blow him off the line and beat him by 3-4 tenths.
Fast forward to the first race...
I'm aware that my stock rear end is fragile from the factory and that with my newer sticky Advan AD-08's, that a clutch drop would not be appropriate. So I decided I would bring the RPM's up to around 5500 and slowly let the clutch out as I added throttle. This is when Things got bad.
I did not give a crap about my reaction time and as I have a considerable amount of quarter mile passes with different cars in my past, I know the clock does not start until I start moving, so my plan was to let the light turn green and take my time launching it as stated only being concerned with my total time.
I brought her to around 5500 and let the clutch out at a reasonable rate (not dumping it, to avoid breakage) while at the same time mashing the accelerator to the floor.
Needless to say, my car experienced what I believe to be clutch slip. The RPM's climbed while my acceration didn't. I let off the throttle and then got back in the gas. The slip seemed to stop and my car took off. The result was a 15.390 at 93.36 mph with a 60' time of 2.578.
The clutch slip shocked me because my clutch was adjusted properly and I had never had any slippage at all before (although I had never launched it that hard before)
I believe my clutch is original and thought that by not dumping it, that it would be fine. I was way wrong.
I made one more pass about a half hour later and soft launched it at around 2500 and then mashed the gas with no slippage and ran a 15.339 at 94.42 mph with a 60' time of 2.609.
My friends best run of the two was 15.172.
I believe my slippage is an indication of a weak original clutch, or was my technique a bad choice?
My plans were to get a Puddymod 4:57 diff and installing it, but obviously, I have to address this clutch issue first.
I would like your opinions on the causes of my slippage and if you think my clutch is weak and needs replacing? Please give me some recommendations on clutch choices and installers in a 50 mile radius of Schaumburg please.
I plan on tracking my car occasionally with very limited quarter mile action in my future, but I would want a clutch that would be strong enough to easily handle some 6000 rpm launches with my future 4:57 Puddymod diff.
My car is not my daily driver and I will only be putting about 2-3k miles a year on her.
Anyway, thanks for taking your time reading this and I looked forward to your feedback!
Randy
10-28-2013, 06:06 AM
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your trap speed is really low, were you shifting at red line? you should be trapping in the upper 90's at least even with a soft launch.
depending on track condition, i'd stick to a 5-6k clutch dump and feather the gas. if it hooks too hard and bogs, then i'd probably raise the psi in the rear tires. you want some wheel spin off the line to get the car into the powerband. i'd be too worried of going up past 7k and clutch dumping. that will definitely grenade a dif. our cars should be able to do a 2.2-2.0 60ft easily.
depending on track condition, i'd stick to a 5-6k clutch dump and feather the gas. if it hooks too hard and bogs, then i'd probably raise the psi in the rear tires. you want some wheel spin off the line to get the car into the powerband. i'd be too worried of going up past 7k and clutch dumping. that will definitely grenade a dif. our cars should be able to do a 2.2-2.0 60ft easily.
10-28-2013, 06:38 AM
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Clutch slipping sounds like the CDV (clutch delay valve) but I didn't think AP1's had that. 
10-28-2013, 04:59 PM
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your trap speed is really low, were you shifting at red line? you should be trapping in the upper 90's at least even with a soft launch.
depending on track condition, i'd stick to a 5-6k clutch dump and feather the gas. if it hooks too hard and bogs, then i'd probably raise the psi in the rear tires. you want some wheel spin off the line to get the car into the powerband. i'd be too worried of going up past 7k and clutch dumping. that will definitely grenade a dif. our cars should be able to do a 2.2-2.0 60ft easily.
depending on track condition, i'd stick to a 5-6k clutch dump and feather the gas. if it hooks too hard and bogs, then i'd probably raise the psi in the rear tires. you want some wheel spin off the line to get the car into the powerband. i'd be too worried of going up past 7k and clutch dumping. that will definitely grenade a dif. our cars should be able to do a 2.2-2.0 60ft easily.
I was shifting at around 8700-8800. I was shifting as fast as I could while lifting the gas between shifts. I didn't want to power shift my car.
It was quite windy. Maybe that was why my trap speeds were low.
I know my AP1 does not have a CDV so my whole question is why did my car start decelerating when my clutch was fully out with my foot to the floor?
Remember, I brought the RPM's to around 5500 then while I was letting the clutch out, I mashed the gas to the floor. I did not want to drop the clutch.
I'm starting to think that maybe dumping the clutch was a better idea. Maybe I let the clutch out a little too slow which caused the clutch to slip?
10-29-2013, 05:11 AM
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With only 50k miles your clutch should be fine unless it had an inexperienced driver in the past.
As for luanching, you want to dump the clutch and actually get some wheelspin. Break traction to prevent loading the diff to the point of breaking it. As the car moves forward traction will catch up and you'll be in the thick of the powerband when it does. This goes against the idea that traction is best when the tires are getting just a hint of slip, but for the sake of differential life its the best option.
As for luanching, you want to dump the clutch and actually get some wheelspin. Break traction to prevent loading the diff to the point of breaking it. As the car moves forward traction will catch up and you'll be in the thick of the powerband when it does. This goes against the idea that traction is best when the tires are getting just a hint of slip, but for the sake of differential life its the best option.
10-29-2013, 05:50 AM
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I was shifting at around 8700-8800. I was shifting as fast as I could while lifting the gas between shifts. I didn't want to power shift my car.
It was quite windy. Maybe that was why my trap speeds were low.
I know my AP1 does not have a CDV so my whole question is why did my car start decelerating when my clutch was fully out with my foot to the floor?
Remember, I brought the RPM's to around 5500 then while I was letting the clutch out, I mashed the gas to the floor. I did not want to drop the clutch.
I'm starting to think that maybe dumping the clutch was a better idea. Maybe I let the clutch out a little too slow which caused the clutch to slip?
It was quite windy. Maybe that was why my trap speeds were low.
I know my AP1 does not have a CDV so my whole question is why did my car start decelerating when my clutch was fully out with my foot to the floor?
Remember, I brought the RPM's to around 5500 then while I was letting the clutch out, I mashed the gas to the floor. I did not want to drop the clutch.
I'm starting to think that maybe dumping the clutch was a better idea. Maybe I let the clutch out a little too slow which caused the clutch to slip?
it's real tricky to master feathering the gas but that's how you have to get off the line quicky with these no tq Hondas. if you can get your 60ft time to 2.0-2.2, you're time should be in the mid to low 14's.
10-29-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharps SSS' timestamp='1383008360' post='22850949
I was shifting at around 8700-8800. I was shifting as fast as I could while lifting the gas between shifts. I didn't want to power shift my car.
It was quite windy. Maybe that was why my trap speeds were low.
I know my AP1 does not have a CDV so my whole question is why did my car start decelerating when my clutch was fully out with my foot to the floor?
Remember, I brought the RPM's to around 5500 then while I was letting the clutch out, I mashed the gas to the floor. I did not want to drop the clutch.
I'm starting to think that maybe dumping the clutch was a better idea. Maybe I let the clutch out a little too slow which caused the clutch to slip?
it's real tricky to master feathering the gas but that's how you have to get off the line quicky with these no tq Hondas. if you can get your 60ft time to 2.0-2.2, you're time should be in the mid to low 14's.
It will have to be on the street though as the next time I hit the track may be a long time away.
Also, I will first add the Puddymod 4:57 diff because I dont want the explode the stock diff!
Dropping the clutch at 5500 with the 4:57's should produce EASY wheel spin!
Puddydaddy, are you listening? Your products are wanted. Hopefully you have a 4:57 rear available or I would also consider a 4:44 if you have one.
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10-30-2013, 06:28 AM
#8
If upgrading your clutch get an ACT with oem full face disc. Since your racing the car, I would also suggest a lighter flywheel I run an 11.5 pounds you may want to go lower for quicker shifts
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10-30-2013, 08:29 AM
#9
I would highly suggest not dumping the clutch, you are on the right track with letting it out slowly. It's a stock clutch, it's going to slip. Dumping the clutch on a prepped track is going to break the diff. You need to let the clutch out quicker than you recently did though. It will wear it out, it will slip, this is what you can expect from something that is not designed for this style racing. In my most humble opinion when you go back to the track, shoot for a MPH rather than an ET. These cars don't ET well because of their no torque hard to launch nature. I would be happy with 99-100mph trap speeds in an ap1 with current mods. Maybe you'll be able to work your way up to a decent launch and nail a decent ET, maybe not. But there really is no sense in burning up a perfectly good clutch to run 14sec 1/4mile times. Back in the day I went 14.0@99 in my AP1 with an intake at GLD. Slipping the clutch and averaging horrid 2.2-2.3 60' times. For an s2000 that's pretty decent, but it's terrible. Beating up my car to run with modern Minivans.
A lighter flywheel would be a waste, it's not an 8sec car, little things like that do nothing and make the car a pain in the a$$ to drive around town.
A lighter flywheel would be a waste, it's not an 8sec car, little things like that do nothing and make the car a pain in the a$$ to drive around town.
10-30-2013, 01:26 PM
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I would highly suggest not dumping the clutch, you are on the right track with letting it out slowly. It's a stock clutch, it's going to slip. Dumping the clutch on a prepped track is going to break the diff. You need to let the clutch out quicker than you recently did though. It will wear it out, it will slip, this is what you can expect from something that is not designed for this style racing. In my most humble opinion when you go back to the track, shoot for a MPH rather than an ET. These cars don't ET well because of their no torque hard to launch nature. I would be happy with 99-100mph trap speeds in an ap1 with current mods. Maybe you'll be able to work your way up to a decent launch and nail a decent ET, maybe not. But there really is no sense in burning up a perfectly good clutch to run 14sec 1/4mile times. Back in the day I went 14.0@99 in my AP1 with an intake at GLD. Slipping the clutch and averaging horrid 2.2-2.3 60' times. For an s2000 that's pretty decent, but it's terrible. Beating up my car to run with modern Minivans.
A lighter flywheel would be a waste, it's not an 8sec car, little things like that do nothing and make the car a pain in the a$$ to drive around town.
A lighter flywheel would be a waste, it's not an 8sec car, little things like that do nothing and make the car a pain in the a$$ to drive around town.