Wipe Out - Is this a record?
01-17-2003, 02:45 AM
#31
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by g1gut
[B]
These postings are quite worrying and I wonder whether there is anything else contributing to these accidents other than "driver error??".
[B]
These postings are quite worrying and I wonder whether there is anything else contributing to these accidents other than "driver error??".
01-17-2003, 02:58 AM
#32
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I think it's time for me to organise another Academy day.
I know one or two people are planning to go on the Evo day at Brands, but for those people who've never done this type of thing before, I have heard that the Evo day is a little 'gung ho' - I'll email Motorsport Events and get another Academy day lined up, I'll start a thread when I have some news.
I know one or two people are planning to go on the Evo day at Brands, but for those people who've never done this type of thing before, I have heard that the Evo day is a little 'gung ho' - I'll email Motorsport Events and get another Academy day lined up, I'll start a thread when I have some news.
01-17-2003, 02:59 AM
#33
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01-17-2003, 03:12 AM
#34
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He sees that sharp right hander coming up, bottles it and lifts off. You can actually see his rear n/side wheel come off the ground as the weight of the car is thrown forward and to the right.
01-17-2003, 03:17 AM
#35
Thanks for that Rob. That's the one. I will still put it on my server tomorrow just in case the other link goes.
You need to playback the bit just before and in the bend in slomo and you will see the car's rear right corner going light as it goes into the corner, the brake lights coming on, with the consequent instant weight transfer, and the subsequent loss of control
Pete
Edit:
Sorry, Cedric, took me while to click submit there and I ended up saying almost the same thing!
You need to playback the bit just before and in the bend in slomo and you will see the car's rear right corner going light as it goes into the corner, the brake lights coming on, with the consequent instant weight transfer, and the subsequent loss of control
Pete
Edit:
Sorry, Cedric, took me while to click submit there and I ended up saying almost the same thing!
01-17-2003, 03:24 AM
#36
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I think the fundamental thing to remember is DO NOT PANIC when the back get's lively
Most people who took their test from the 80's 90's will most probably have learnt in a BSM fwd Micra, then graduated to a hot hatch or some sort of fwd sports saloon
If you get into a 'butterflies' in the stomach moment in a car the natural reaction is to lift off totally and in most cases with a fwd car this is the right thing to do. Most drivers will insinctively do this in their moment of panic and is why most if not all cars, rwd included are designed with inherent undesteer at the limit and plough on understeer if too
Most people are used to being able to overcook things knowing that the least amount of skill is required to recover and avoid a potential accident. People therefore have become accustomed with understeer and how to correct it
The S2000 is a very different beast, the rwd factor combined with 2.5 times the power of the average hot hatch is complicated by the 50:50 weight distribution leading to a low polar moment of interia i.e the car will spin around it's own axis with very little little warning. The pendulum effect provided by a true front engined car that can warn that you are approaching the limit is not there
With a rwd car such as the S2000 the driver really needs to 'drive' the car read the road surface and ignore the instinct to blindly lift off in panic when things start to get untidy but feel what the cars is doing and respond accordingly. It's a difficult instinct to overcome this lifting off business and requires real concentration by the driver if you are going to drive this car fast and in safety
I think a key point and one which I think can be applied generally is that the throttle in particular should not be operated like an on/off switch but moderated in relation to the postion of the steering wheel - i.e
at full lock 1% throttle,
zero lock full throttle (where conditons permit)
and smooth progressive inputs in between
I have found this technique to be especially useful to avoid losing the back end under power.
In order to avoid losing the rear under a constant throttle if things do get a bit wayward I try to come off the throttle as gradually as possible and try not to upset the weight distribution too much and try and drive myself out of trouble
This is just a general point based on experience ranging from my first 'hot' car a VW Scirrocco to my most powerful a 400bhp Testarossa (which I have spun at great speed at Silverstone due to lifting off mid corner in panic!!) It is not meant to be an opinion on what might or might not have resulted in another potential total loss and certainly not meant as a preach
Most people who took their test from the 80's 90's will most probably have learnt in a BSM fwd Micra, then graduated to a hot hatch or some sort of fwd sports saloon
If you get into a 'butterflies' in the stomach moment in a car the natural reaction is to lift off totally and in most cases with a fwd car this is the right thing to do. Most drivers will insinctively do this in their moment of panic and is why most if not all cars, rwd included are designed with inherent undesteer at the limit and plough on understeer if too
Most people are used to being able to overcook things knowing that the least amount of skill is required to recover and avoid a potential accident. People therefore have become accustomed with understeer and how to correct it
The S2000 is a very different beast, the rwd factor combined with 2.5 times the power of the average hot hatch is complicated by the 50:50 weight distribution leading to a low polar moment of interia i.e the car will spin around it's own axis with very little little warning. The pendulum effect provided by a true front engined car that can warn that you are approaching the limit is not there
With a rwd car such as the S2000 the driver really needs to 'drive' the car read the road surface and ignore the instinct to blindly lift off in panic when things start to get untidy but feel what the cars is doing and respond accordingly. It's a difficult instinct to overcome this lifting off business and requires real concentration by the driver if you are going to drive this car fast and in safety
I think a key point and one which I think can be applied generally is that the throttle in particular should not be operated like an on/off switch but moderated in relation to the postion of the steering wheel - i.e
at full lock 1% throttle,
zero lock full throttle (where conditons permit)
and smooth progressive inputs in between
I have found this technique to be especially useful to avoid losing the back end under power.
In order to avoid losing the rear under a constant throttle if things do get a bit wayward I try to come off the throttle as gradually as possible and try not to upset the weight distribution too much and try and drive myself out of trouble
This is just a general point based on experience ranging from my first 'hot' car a VW Scirrocco to my most powerful a 400bhp Testarossa (which I have spun at great speed at Silverstone due to lifting off mid corner in panic!!) It is not meant to be an opinion on what might or might not have resulted in another potential total loss and certainly not meant as a preach
01-17-2003, 03:39 AM
#38
Registered User
The scariest bit was the pics of the car upside down on the rocky ravine floor and the driver jsut crawled out and walked away. No need to point the finger at anyone here chaps, it's a fellow members misfortune after all and it could happen to any of us, but the lesson is there to see.
The S is the most solidly planted car I've ever driven at speeds where they just shred your licence. It's very confidence inspiring and it's all too easy to reach the point where the laws of physics are going to win out. You can have a lot of fun in this car without pushing it and yourself past the limit.
There's times in life where you ought to be able to rewind the tape!
The S is the most solidly planted car I've ever driven at speeds where they just shred your licence. It's very confidence inspiring and it's all too easy to reach the point where the laws of physics are going to win out. You can have a lot of fun in this car without pushing it and yourself past the limit.
There's times in life where you ought to be able to rewind the tape!
01-17-2003, 03:58 AM
#39
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Thank god you guys are ok. Hope the car gets sorted soon enough!
OUCH
Just seen the video.
Was the driver OK?
I have driven a RWD car for the past 6 years (see my sig) (awaiting delivery of my S2K at the end of Feb) and can honestly say I have not come off the road on any corners. I have had the back end slide out a few times but corrected quickly enough.
Like most people on the board here say and I agree, accidents are caused by irresponsible or inexperienced drivers for the conditions. If the road is damp, then take it easy.
Most peole here save up for years to own a car like this, and then write it off within weeks. WHY!
Come on guys, this is a beautiful car.... let's keep it that way.
Not long until the better weather arrives, wait for the dry roads and hit that
Later.
OUCH
Just seen the video.
Was the driver OK?
I have driven a RWD car for the past 6 years (see my sig) (awaiting delivery of my S2K at the end of Feb) and can honestly say I have not come off the road on any corners. I have had the back end slide out a few times but corrected quickly enough.
Like most people on the board here say and I agree, accidents are caused by irresponsible or inexperienced drivers for the conditions. If the road is damp, then take it easy.
Most peole here save up for years to own a car like this, and then write it off within weeks. WHY!
Come on guys, this is a beautiful car.... let's keep it that way.
Not long until the better weather arrives, wait for the dry roads and hit that
Later.
01-17-2003, 04:06 AM
#40
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The more I read these kind of threads, and having just watched the video clip, the more I wonder how I managed to avoid putting the car catastrophically into a ditch during the first couple of months of ownership, given my own very modest driving ability and experience of powerful RWD cars.
The irony is that I drove (quite briskly) all summer without worrying excessively about this. I was certainly more circumspect than I'd been in my old MX5, but didn't spend too long pondering the possibility of losing it on any given corner.
Even when spring arrives and the road is dry, I can't help wondering whether my enjoyment of the car will be tempered, perhaps even marred, by worrying about precisely the kind of incident that is shown on that clip (which, let's not forget, was in the dry.....).
Lots more driver training/education courses for me this year, I think
The irony is that I drove (quite briskly) all summer without worrying excessively about this. I was certainly more circumspect than I'd been in my old MX5, but didn't spend too long pondering the possibility of losing it on any given corner.
Even when spring arrives and the road is dry, I can't help wondering whether my enjoyment of the car will be tempered, perhaps even marred, by worrying about precisely the kind of incident that is shown on that clip (which, let's not forget, was in the dry.....).
Lots more driver training/education courses for me this year, I think