rahula

Hi all

Since I have a few minutes I wanted to post my thoughts and questions which arise as a direct consequence of the issues relating to speed on public roads.

Let me start by saying that I think of myself as a careful and considerate driver. I don't do any business miles at all and therefore each mile done is for pleasure. I do about 20,000 in a year looking at sites and places but still try and maintain control over my car. I don't do doughnuts on public roads or tail out action. I do not condemn those that do because I am not the traffic police. Each to their own as far as I am concerned. I for example drive properly and stay in the left lane on DC or motorways, use mirrors all the time, indicate in time etc. however I tend to speed regularly.

I am not talking about manic speeds like 140 or something like that but speed which to me seem sensible or reasonable for the road conditions. To demonstrate my point here are the speeds I regularly drive at:

1. Motorway and DC 80-100 mph weather and traffic permitting or even as low as 60 when wet
2. 70-80 on single lane A and B roads if they are wide enough.
3. 40 -50 in city driving if conditions permit and it looks safe
4. 40 in 30 zones however outside schools I tend to drop to 15 maybe 20.

Having said this it looks as though I am breaking the law on every road but I never feel as though I am going too fast for the conditions. I have both hands on the wheel at all times and never use the mobile when driving even on a hands free basis. I know that I am now breaking the law and imposing my own moral speed limits which I feel conformable at and think the speed limits imposed on many roads are too low this however doesn't mean that I am right and the law stupid. I don't feel guilty but the question is should I?

The question then becomes of asking what is safe. In different countries there are different speed limits and therefore the acceptable speed is different. What might be safe in Germany on a motorway would be thought of as dangerous on our roads in the same car. Am I not as bad as any other criminal then when I break the law? Law is the law and is there to prevent various offences which we as public demand or need. I might not be as dangerous a driver compared to those who drive well below a speed limit but not giving 100% concentration, using a mobile etc. or a burglar using force against owners but I am still guilty of breaking the law.

So in conclusion what I am reflecting on is whether this is wrong or not. Is speeding and the punishments regarded in the same way as the introduction of wearing of helmets and seatbelts or drink driving laws being enforced? Are we trying to bypass the law when it either suits us or not? The problem I have with speed cameras etc is that they are generating revenue more than anything else. If they were there to actually reduce deaths, increase the number of police, educate etc I would be in favour of them. However this is a topic close to most of us. How do you feel about these issues?

sammyc

About the only place I purposely break the limit is on the motorway, usually in the 70-90 range.

However, I have just got a ticket for doing 45 in a 30 which was due to not paying attention. Because of this I am applying ofr IAM membership.

I agree with you that the public have lost confidence in speed cameras. I don't think there is any doubt in my mind that they are being used in a lot (not all) of places are revenue earners. This is shown by the recent case of the old chap who lost his licence for warning drivers of a police speed trap.

I do feel that 40 in town is too fast unless there is a decent gap to the pavement, but this is my feeling.

I think you have to remember the advert with the 35 to 30 stopping distance reduction.

zero_to60

I rarely speed now in the Ferrari as it's too conspicuous and secondly if I was ever involved in an accident it would be assumed that 'because it's a Ferrari' speed was a factor

I am less circumspect in the S2000 although rarely exceed the limit on anything other than N/S roads and DC and motorways

I consider myself capable of assessing what is an appropriate speed dependent on a myriad of factors too numerous to list

I do feel that the current obession with speed limits is to the detriment of driving in general as I am sure many of us end up paying increasingly more attention looking at the speedo than the road which can't be a good thing

Tonky

A competent driver should be able to drive quite safely at the speeds you've indicated in those various zones, and still be aware of what's going on around him, whilst still giving proper consideration to developing or potential hazards. You've made the observation, quite rightly, that conditions will often dictate observing the posted limit or indeed less!

Unfortunately I'm sure we're all aware that those most likely not to exercise any speed restraint whatsoever, are those who are least capable of driving quickly and safely, although they'd be the last people to look at their shortcomings, let alone actually recognize them.

The easiest thing to do is impose arbitrary limits rather than actually embark on a programme of driver education, which frankly, isn't going to happen, so I don't see much coming of this thread Rahula that we haven't all said before.

GSi

Generally I stick to the limit in towns and 30 limits. MJ always appreciates the decceleration from my usual NS velocity to the 30 limit in time for the sign

But I seem to find myself pootling along at 25 on the way to work a lot these days (30 limit most of the way). Just enjoying the fresh air and listening to the HKS.

On NS I usually let loose a little, but always (I hope) safely and with due respect to conditions, other drivers and how many corners I can see ahead.

On DC, generally about 80-85 due to wind noise etc, but the occaisional blast to get past someone.

On MWay, generally same as DC, but often slower due to traffic.

I'm with you on the speed cameras, better awareness or real measures to reduce speed in dangerous areas would be better - i.e "Accident Blackspot, drive carefully thankyou" signs and reduced limits. Rather than blanket limit reductions and poorly placed cameras. More police on the roads assessin circumstances would also get my vote.

douglasr

I speed regularly. I'll do 85 on the motorway traffic permitting. I'll do 90+ on an NSL road (Although I try to stay less than 30 over the limit). In town, I'll do 35 unless the traffic is flowing at a higher rate. I am very very conscious of my speed and believe that with power comes responsibility.

My car is used for pleasure only and as such I prefer to drive on NSL roads where it is actaully quite difficult to get done for excessive speed (Dukes Pass near Aberfoyle being my favourite).

As for speed cameras, I have no complaints if they are positioned at known accident blackspots or outside schools. What I object to is speed cameras on dual carriageways and motorways where there have been virtually no accidents or pedestrian injuries. I also object to the money being raised funding more cameras. This money should be used to improve the road design at accident blackspots and to pay for additional police officers (at least you have a chance that he/she will use their judgement).

Finally, if you speed in town or in places where the public notice your speed, that you are only furthering the cause of the speed kills contingent. Remember that an S2000 looks and sounds like it
is going faster than it actually is, so slow down a bit in town.

Colin Andrews

Speed doesn't kill, the energy transfer when you hit things does.

So correct (safe) speed is dependant on:

* Visibility
* Reaction time
* Braking Capability (you, the vehicle and the road)
* Avoidance opportunities
* Vehicle Mass

I believe the posted limits are now completely out of touch with these factors

Kelk

I drive still to this day on what my driving instructor said. There are a few little gems that have stuck in my mind.

1) Don't drive at a speed in adverse lighting / visibility / line of sight on the road where you cannot brake in the distance you can see.

2) Only 1 in 4 people indicate correctly around roundabouts and get the correct lane. I always try to ensure I am that 1.

3) His tips on parallel parking were a god send and I recently told my mate the tips my driving instructor told me and he improved a 100%.

As for speed, I will exceed the speed limit on motorways and A roads, but not excessively. I rarely go above 90 on motorways and usually am quite happy to cruise along in the 80 - 85 region. The cost of no licence or huge fine / increased insurance premiums is just not worth it.

I will however play from time to time, but I never do donuts on public highways or even wheelspin unless the wheelspin is accidental.

euan

I generally follow Rahul's limits with the exception of restricted limits.

I never go intentionally over 30 or 40 limits in town (or elsewhere, such as roadworks), and never go more than 10% over 50 limits. These limits IMHO are always there for a good reason.

Out of town I am more flexible, and it comes down to road conditions, weather, traffic density, visibility etc.

En route to a recent scotmeet at 7.30 am on a sunday morning on a motorway I was driving 15 to 20 faster than I was on the return trip that afternoon when there was traffic about.

As douglasr says, it's challenging A and B roads where speed limits are unlikely to be breached significantly anyway, where I enjoy driving the most.

I may try and get the back out when there is no other traffic around, there is space to do so, and I won't damage a loose surface etc - but doughnuts are a no-no except in a deserted snowy carpark. I wouldn't want to do anything which might be viewed by others as boy-racing/dangerous driving (even if it's not because I am in control).

lower

realistically, i speed on every occasion i get in my car. i will do up to 95 on motorways and on the odd occasion have gone quicker when the road has been striaght, clear and the visibilty good. i do not over take on corners or where visibility is restricted and i slow down when i am in a built up area or cannot see clearly for a good distance ahead of me. i always slow down for schools or villages and if i do not know the road ahead. i always keep a safe distance from the car infront using the 3 second rule as taught in my driving lessons.

i do not consider myself to be an unsafe or dangerous driver.

i do consider speed cameras to be there for revenue generation in 75% of cases and think that the speed limits are out of date. i do not aggree that speed kills, inappropriate speed kills. i also think that there should be more education to children to keep out of the road, green cross code etc. adverts for this sort of thing eg the ice cream van were on all the time when i was young. i also think that the motorist is always automatically blamed if a non motorist is hit, even if a child runs out in front of a car.