Should traffic offences be taken away from the pol
05-02-2006, 04:37 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by EddandSam,May 2 2006, 12:47 PM
Theres no substitiute for traffic cops. No one other than a cop that has had relevant training is gonna pull over cars to discover a knife wielding drug crazed manic in it are they! ?
Edd
Edd
Could use the same argument for any public service job.
05-02-2006, 05:04 AM
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I would say it happens quite alot.
Traffic cops pull many people over for driving erratically etc etc (I'd want a professional judging my driving for a starters!)
This is often caused by drugs, drink etc etc Driving is emotive and often results in violence etc or legging it from the authorities!
Are you saying that other people are best placed to deal with this and would run after what maybe an armed person or deal with an abusive drunk or violent crim?
If on the otherhand if your refering to standing there holding a speed camera or dealing with a broken down lorry on the hard shoulder then yes they could deal with this (see highway agency jobs)
Edd
Traffic cops pull many people over for driving erratically etc etc (I'd want a professional judging my driving for a starters!)
This is often caused by drugs, drink etc etc Driving is emotive and often results in violence etc or legging it from the authorities!
Are you saying that other people are best placed to deal with this and would run after what maybe an armed person or deal with an abusive drunk or violent crim?
If on the otherhand if your refering to standing there holding a speed camera or dealing with a broken down lorry on the hard shoulder then yes they could deal with this (see highway agency jobs)
Edd
05-02-2006, 05:11 AM
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I'm not sure about what should be farmed out Edd, I thought people could suggest ideas.
You have a valid point about the correlation with erratic driving and criminal behaviour.
But do traffic cops need to learn the full skillset of the police?
You have a valid point about the correlation with erratic driving and criminal behaviour.
But do traffic cops need to learn the full skillset of the police?
05-02-2006, 08:01 AM
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I would argue yes as they could come up against the same general public..........just behind the wheel of a car.
I'm not a particularly a fan of the police - its like any cross section of society in a job there are some bad ones and some good ones! I have come across both in my time! Its not the easiest job in the world either!
What I would not be a fan of is giving legal powers to people with a lesser level of training, commitment or responsibility than the current standard.
This maybe a bad example but back in my old army days I took a group of TA on the range. Most were young, keen weekend warriors who relished the chance to get their hands on a rifle and "pop off some rounds!" Lets just say I feared for my life and their own.
I would hate to see a similar situation with traffic police!
Edd
I'm not a particularly a fan of the police - its like any cross section of society in a job there are some bad ones and some good ones! I have come across both in my time! Its not the easiest job in the world either!
What I would not be a fan of is giving legal powers to people with a lesser level of training, commitment or responsibility than the current standard.
This maybe a bad example but back in my old army days I took a group of TA on the range. Most were young, keen weekend warriors who relished the chance to get their hands on a rifle and "pop off some rounds!" Lets just say I feared for my life and their own.
I would hate to see a similar situation with traffic police!
Edd
05-02-2006, 08:19 AM
#16
Originally Posted by John57,May 2 2006, 10:29 AM
Don't get rid of Traffic Police .... I'll loose my job 
Do you really want the equivalent of local authority wardens dealing with traffic offences ?
An ongoing example of what you would get is the large number of speed cameras springing up which is, I am told, the result of local authorities and in London TfL deciding themselves they are needed ..... it is certainly not the result of traffpols saying, yeah, lets put another one up - I can assure you !
Traffic officers do specialise but the numbers are being reduced all the time (Met getting rid of some more this year .... and have got rid of 1/4 of their motorbikes). The pressure to do things other than 'real' traffic stuff - is huge and officers just don't get the chance to do what they want.
I am lucky in that working in Traffic where I am the vast majority are experienced and hard working .... there is effectively a waiting list to try and join traffic in London and there is a good reason for that. No cricket or cards on night duty where I work!
As to driving standards - as far as Traffic goes in the Met alot of pride is taken in driving and people who make mistakes end up getting abuse for a long long time..... even for scratching a bumper, etc. People do have accidents but it's my job to report all police accidents or driving incidents when I am on duty and in over four years of doing it I have yet to go to a traffic car involved in anything serious. Divisional cars, yes - but not traffic cars.
As I say, if you want a local authority person standing there to report you for not wearing a seat belt and driving in a car sponsored by BSM and think that would be better than what you have then go ahead ......... the government love ideas to save loads of money - and no doubt according to them the service would be excellent
Do you really want the equivalent of local authority wardens dealing with traffic offences ?
An ongoing example of what you would get is the large number of speed cameras springing up which is, I am told, the result of local authorities and in London TfL deciding themselves they are needed ..... it is certainly not the result of traffpols saying, yeah, lets put another one up - I can assure you !
Traffic officers do specialise but the numbers are being reduced all the time (Met getting rid of some more this year .... and have got rid of 1/4 of their motorbikes). The pressure to do things other than 'real' traffic stuff - is huge and officers just don't get the chance to do what they want.
I am lucky in that working in Traffic where I am the vast majority are experienced and hard working .... there is effectively a waiting list to try and join traffic in London and there is a good reason for that. No cricket or cards on night duty where I work!
As to driving standards - as far as Traffic goes in the Met alot of pride is taken in driving and people who make mistakes end up getting abuse for a long long time..... even for scratching a bumper, etc. People do have accidents but it's my job to report all police accidents or driving incidents when I am on duty and in over four years of doing it I have yet to go to a traffic car involved in anything serious. Divisional cars, yes - but not traffic cars.
As I say, if you want a local authority person standing there to report you for not wearing a seat belt and driving in a car sponsored by BSM and think that would be better than what you have then go ahead ......... the government love ideas to save loads of money - and no doubt according to them the service would be excellent
Although politicos seem to prat about with what they expect of plod every 15 seconds, there are many good plod out there who do try their best.
The last thing we need is yet another B.Liar Quango on %age commisson, trying to rape what's left of our wallets.
Look at parking/cuntgestion charge in London for a good example.
05-02-2006, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Moggy,May 2 2006, 11:25 AM
However I think there is a perception that the life of a traffic cop is "easy street" (overpaid/overqualified again kicks in here) hence the long waiting list.
Maybe it's just me, but the level of training and ability they have seems to be
I don't know what the pass rate is to get into traffic is, but I understand it is very difficult. To do what they need to do you need highly disciplined individuals, and you'd struggle to find anyone like that outside of the police force.There's also the issue of ensuring there are enough trafpol around to deal with the more serious incidents - if you cut their numbers by replacing say 50% with a "lower level" force for mundane matters, this may well mean you won't have qualified officers available quickly enough for critical stuff ie ARVs, ambulance escort, high speed pursuits, major RTCs etc
05-03-2006, 12:36 AM
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I take all your points. 
Maybe a lower form of uniformed visible "officers" could be a good deterrant?
This bored (sic) is dull at the moment.
Maybe a lower form of uniformed visible "officers" could be a good deterrant?
This bored (sic) is dull at the moment.
05-03-2006, 02:43 AM
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I don't think it is a good idea to take it away from traffic police. There are many factors why I believe this to be true but I'll name a few.
Traffic cops not only are extremely professional but they are also police officers that with experience manage to pickup people that have outstanding warrants etc. against them and know when something is suspicious. They are top drivers, with exceptionally high training and professional and we just need more of them.
It is absolute madness that traffic is increasing and their numbers are dropping and not only in relative terms. They don't only police traffic but they are very useful to have on our roads for other offenses and although I don't have stats to hand I know their stops lead to arrest for various other offenses because of their ability to spot odd behaviors or known felons. Lastly if you train other people just to manage traffic issues one would still want highly qualified people on our roads, also train them for self defense, arrests and driving skills etc and we are back to where we started. Due to these factors there are no savings to be made. IMO of course.
What would save money but would need a change in laws is to allow officers to hand over arrested people to a police van to take back the person instead of having to take each offender back to the station, filling out a lot of paperwork and giving the details to the custody sergeant. We need a handover process so that we can have officers out on the road as much as possible and being able to pass on the offense details to another but allowing due process to take place with administrative officers.
Traffic cops not only are extremely professional but they are also police officers that with experience manage to pickup people that have outstanding warrants etc. against them and know when something is suspicious. They are top drivers, with exceptionally high training and professional and we just need more of them.
It is absolute madness that traffic is increasing and their numbers are dropping and not only in relative terms. They don't only police traffic but they are very useful to have on our roads for other offenses and although I don't have stats to hand I know their stops lead to arrest for various other offenses because of their ability to spot odd behaviors or known felons. Lastly if you train other people just to manage traffic issues one would still want highly qualified people on our roads, also train them for self defense, arrests and driving skills etc and we are back to where we started. Due to these factors there are no savings to be made. IMO of course.
What would save money but would need a change in laws is to allow officers to hand over arrested people to a police van to take back the person instead of having to take each offender back to the station, filling out a lot of paperwork and giving the details to the custody sergeant. We need a handover process so that we can have officers out on the road as much as possible and being able to pass on the offense details to another but allowing due process to take place with administrative officers.
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