MarkB

There are loads of warning signs, they're not obvious, but they're there nontheless.

The problem is, most people only think about this kind of thing when the car begins to slide, then they panic, over compensate and post something like "the car just let go". It didn't, and there was ample warning but the driver did not realise it until too late.

Observance of conditions is a whole other thread in itself.

And if you want to learn how to drive safely and quickly on the road, then road trainig is what you need, Ride Drive are IMO the best at it. 1st Lotus et al are car control courses, the idea of Ride Drive is avoid situations where you need to be able to drive looking out of the passenger window in the first place.

dreamer

Drivetrain are also good for road training

dws2000

Not true. It's the stock tyres that have little grip in snow and ice. (although 240bhp and RWD aren't best for those conditions)

Just ask Euan, he looks forwards to snowy days

Badger

...with snow tyres

Jefferson D'arcy

Concur.

There's a B road stretch I use where I can easily do 70 in the dry, but the uneven surface of this particular road makes it hairy even at 50mph when its wet. Car feels like its on skittles.

dws2000

I find the key warning signs are subtle but once you are tuned into it, it becomes a lot more obvious - I learnt this tuning at a Don Palmer creative car control session. For me the main one is the car very slightly understeers just before it lets go, so don't add any extra gas or steering input at that point, let the car hold it's line.

To feel the understeer I notice the steering gets that little bit lighter than it was a half second ago and you are entering the delicious (on a track) / scary (on the road) edge of the envelope.

Badger

From what I can recall of that corner, that does ring bells now you mention it.

Investigations for instruction are afoot, so I shall try that out when I get the opportunity

matthehat17

But I think this is where tyre choice plays a part as well. The fact that I've got a mix of good rubber (front) and shyte rubber (rear) on my car has upset the grip and handling. It's been understeering all summer in the dry on these tyres, because the rears are a soft compound compared to the harder Bridgie fronts. So that little bit of understeer you mention (which I agree is there for cars on the right rubber) is swamped in induced-nose-heaviness brought about by me having unsuitable tyres on the rear.

As with any car, you drive according to the conditions. Any RWD car is gonna spit you into a hedge backwards if you drive it with a total lack of consideration. I'm not blaming my tyres for my spin; I put too much steering lock onto the car, simple as that. But I do believe I had been driving carefully for the conditions before this spin.

Badger

Brand new S02s on the rear now after shredded Pirelli P6s and, even though I'm taking it easy (mixed with the P6s on the front until Thursday plus the S02s are brand new so still a bit shiny), I'm already feeling the difference.

Never had a car that you can feel that kind of difference on so evidently.

KMB

Will be taking mine in for new rear tyres next week