S2K humbles S1 Elise
07-25-2005, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by craig armstrong,Jul 25 2005, 06:48 PM
a 4wd car is not better around corners, unless surface or weather conditions are poor. Just go to Anglesey to see the Evos etc struggle around the corners 
07-25-2005, 11:09 AM
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I loved the Elise (S1) when I had one for a week.
Just felt connected to my soul.
The S2000 is close but different somehow - much better engine by along way though - my mate wet himself earlier when I did a rolling 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear burst.
You can't beat 9K on the rev counter!
Just felt connected to my soul.
The S2000 is close but different somehow - much better engine by along way though - my mate wet himself earlier when I did a rolling 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear burst.
You can't beat 9K on the rev counter!
07-25-2005, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by GTFCTIM,Jul 25 2005, 07:48 PM
I can remember when I took the bloke out in mine who owned a Tuscan the 1st thing he said was that the S would have him on the corners.
Not sure Tuscan falls into the 'heavy' car category either
07-26-2005, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rahula,Jul 25 2005, 03:23 PM
1) I think you misundertood me Mark. I wasn't saying a race car for instance won't go faster than a fast saloon but rather that on our regular roads and within reasonable speed limits of say 80-90 mph there is hardly anything between a lot of cars.
2) Also that certain cars have TC and those cars will corner more easily compared to an S driver who has only his own skill to keep it on the black stuff.
3) All I am saying is that a lot of people post on this forum and say that the S will leave xyz for dead in the bends but that really isn't true.
4)I think the same driver in an S will easily do the same speeds in say a Z4 or CTR. It is even sometimes easier to take bends faster on B roads in cars which are more compliant etc
5) but perhaps it is just me.
2) Also that certain cars have TC and those cars will corner more easily compared to an S driver who has only his own skill to keep it on the black stuff.
3) All I am saying is that a lot of people post on this forum and say that the S will leave xyz for dead in the bends but that really isn't true.
4)I think the same driver in an S will easily do the same speeds in say a Z4 or CTR. It is even sometimes easier to take bends faster on B roads in cars which are more compliant etc
5) but perhaps it is just me.
2) Ah, so now you introduce driver aids. They weren't there in your original assertion - you mentioned heavier and lighter car, twisty road. But TC doesn't allow a car to corner any quicker, it allows a ham-fisted driver to drive the car at the corner quicker, but it brakes the wheels and kills the car's speed in an attempt to stop a slide. A non-TC car driven competently will corner better than a TC car driven badly.
3) I agree that there are a lot of 'heros'on any car board, and that, real world most drivers aren't good enough to extract the maximum performance out of their car. Additionally, the road isn't the place to be driving at 10/10ths, at least not in a car with the capabilities of the S2000. But that wasn't what you said initially.
4) The Z4 and CTR aren't exactly heavy though are they? Or are we changing the rules again?
5) I think so.
07-26-2005, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkB,Jul 26 2005, 11:37 AM
1) No, I understood you perfectly. But you were talking about a heavy car on twisting roads. The physics remain the same - more mass = less manouverability due to inertia and momentum, twisty road = no chance for the more powerful car to use it's advantage. Of course, it's easy to generalise, but I think you'd find that an Elise or a Seven would be considerably quicker than a BMW 330 and quite possibly an M3 (not exactly heavy cars though, are they) along a twisty country road at the speeds you mention. There is also the question of where the mass is located as I said, but that's another topic.
Example 1)
A mate in a Corvette (the blue one shown on here a while back at a piston heads meet with plate TE51CLE) was at a track with a couple of long straights and also a very demanding set of curves. An elise decided to play with him and on the straights the vette "left him for dead" however as soon as the bends complex arrived the Elise was all over him and making ground. Net result the times were very similar for a complete lap. Why? Because the vette had to back off in the corners so much whereas the Lotus just ate them up.
Example 2)
A Ferrari 360 went up against an Elise on a more technical twisty track than the one in the above example. The 360 managed slightly quicker lap times but not by much.
Net result the Elise can hold its own against big engined, high powered, heavier cars due to its nimble nature. I say fair play to the light little fellow.
And to bring some basic physics into the discussion.
If F = the maximum lateral force that a tyre can hold grip on then
F= Mass x Acceleration (Newton's second law of motion)
A = V squared / r (Velocity divided by radius of curve)
So F = (MVV) / r
But if F is fixed and r is fixed as both cars are going around the same corner, then if you reduce M (as in the case of the Elise) then V must be higher.
