OldDogmeat

I want to ask peoples opinions on the use of a particular gearbox oil in the S2000 and how, if at all, it would affect warranty.

I'll just start by explaining that my gearbox has just been stripped and rebuilt with new bearings after my 27k miles service. The car went into the service with no issues with the gearbox whatsoever and came away from the service with an obvious issue which was a clear metallic sound in gears 2,4 and 6.

I'd supplied all my own oils for the 27k service, oils that were recommended on these forums as well as by Opie Oils. I'd used these same oils on several previous services and had no issues whatsoever.

The gearbox oil I gave to my dealer to use was Amsoil MTF which is highly recommended in many posts on both the UK and US S2KI forums. In fact there are several posts stating that this oil is approved by Honda for use in the S2000 gearbox, Amsoils website also appears to back this up.

See just above the red text on this page of Amsoil's website :-
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtf.aspx

My dealer spoke to Honda who authorised them to strip the gearbox to analyse the problem.

I was informed by my dealer that a dealer stripping an S2000 gearbox was unusual and that normally Honda would just replace the entire gearbox but on this occasion had authorised the box be stripped.

Before stripping the box my dealer first replaced the Amsoil MFT with Genuine Honda MTF to see if the noise was still present, which it was.

So the car had had Amsoil MTF in it prior to the service with no issues whatsoever, the service only required the MTF to be changed of which it was with fresh Amsoil MTF and suddenly my gearbox is now making strange noises in 2nd, 4th and 6th gear. It is also now making this noise with Honda MTF.

The dealer stripped the box and rebuilt with new bearings and filled with Honda MTF.

The gearbox to me still feels as though there may be an issue with it but that's a sidepoint for the purposes of this post and its something I will chase up with my dealer.

After speaking to my dealer after I'd had the car back I was asked if I could supply them with evidence that Amsoil MTF is in fact approved or to the correct specification, with the intention to speak to Honda about it and get back to me.

I forwarded the above web page to my dealer who in turn told me they'd be talking to Honda about the use of this oil in the S2000 gearbox with regards warranty cover.

I contacted Amsoil who replied by saying as far as they were concerned their MTF is no different to Honda's formula as far as the general specification goes and that in fact their MTF is actually of a higher standard/specification and thus Honda could not void my warranty as far as they were concerned.

Amsoil also told me that in the US there is a law (The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%8...ss_Warranty_Act ) that in fact prohibits a car manufacturer from only allowing their own brands of product to be used in maintaining a car whilst covered by their warranty as long as the product meets the manufacturers specification.

I imagine the UK also has such a law in place.

Anyway; I'm still waiting to hear from my local dealer and will definately be chasing this up, with Honda UK direct if necessary because I want to get to the bottom of this whole thing and am fairly confident that my warranty should not be affected in any way whatsoever by using Amsoil MTF.

Any and all feedback welcome, particularly from the people on here that work in the oil, car, warranties, law business.

Thanks,
Dan

Garage R

There is something called block exemption which I believe this might fall under. The short of it is that it allows you to take your car to any garage and use products that are equivalent to the manufacturers standards without losing your warranty. It's in place to stop the dealer making you take the car to them for servicing for the first 3 years.

Type block exemption right to repair in google. There's loads of info about it.

OldDogmeat

Thanks for that Rob, you are a gent sir.

aldfort

I once had a car that developed a gearbox problem just after being serviced.
When it was stripped down the bearings were all shot. In this instance it turn out to be the little magnet on the drain plug. Somehow it had been snapped off and gone for a little adventure inside the gearbox.

I wonder if somebody test drove yours without remembering to refill the 'box. As you say v odd for the dealer to strip the 'box down in this day and age.

Honda don't have any wiggle room as long as the correct grade of oil was used.

OldDogmeat

Thanks Aldfort.

I've thus far heard a number of reasons why gearbox bearings 'suddenly' decide they are unhappy after what should have been a simple oil change and none of the reasons are pleasant shall we say

Amsoil suggested either an overfill or underfill of the gearbox could have been a possible cause.

Your scenario above with a test drive with a gearbox void of oil has also flashed through my head as a possibility.

I've yet to receive any kind of evidence that the gearbox bearings have been replaced. I'm not saying they havnt, but I have no actual physical proof that they have either. My dealer has informed me however that they will indeed post to me the invoice that they send to Honda for the work done.

The gearbox still isnt right but is now making noises as I engage 5th gear, but not when I'm in gear, just during the act of changing to 5th, Its not a crunch or a notchy click or anything, its a sort of faint metalic ringing sound that vansihes once 5th is engaged. Would a gearbox after a rebuild make unusual noises for a while?

I know nothing about gearboxes in cars but what I do know is that the gearbox was noisless prior to the 27k service and since the service it's been making odd metalic noises.

I've just emailed the Automotive Distribution Federation (ADF) with questions about this 'Block Exemption' that Rob kindly informed me of as I want to be 100% about the Amsoil before following any of this up with my local dealer.

punchdrunk

Olddogmeat, I'm not sure I understand what your issue is? Do you want Honda to replace your gearbox under warranty or are Honda refusing to pay for the labour in stripping down your box to investigate the issue.

The facts are that the box has developed an issue after the service. Are Honda suggesting using AMSoil is the cause?

OldDogmeat

My local dealer isn't 'suggesting' that the Amsoil 'is' the cause of the problem that has manifested itself as a strange metallic sound that suddenly appeared after what should have been a simple oil change..

However, they are also not discounting this as a possibility and have told me that they will be speaking to Honda with regards using Amsoil MTF and Warranty and specifically asked me to forward them details of the oil including any reference to approval by Honda.

Whether or not the gearbox is actually not as it should be is to some extent another story here but it is crucially linked to whether Honda decide to void my warranty due to using Amsoil MTF.

Clearly if Honda come back and say the use of Amsoil has voided my warranty then whether the gearbox is mullered or not is something I will then need to address out of my own pocket.

The question here is; Does the use of Amsoil MTF in an S2000 gearbox void the warranty in Honda's eyes? I'm still awaiting an answer on this and I suspect it will be 'No, it doesnt void the warranty'

martin j

If the oil used has the correct specifications on the bottle, ie , the same as Honda's own, I don't see how they can blame the oil.? After all many Honda dealers use different oils in the engine, I've seen Mobil 1, Magnatec etc being used in different dealers.
My money would be on some monkey forgetting to refit the plug and the car being driven oil less before someone found the plug or heard a noise and doubly checked.A quick fill resulting and fingers crossed no damage had been.
I had gearbox problems with my first S and Honda suggested many things to the dealer to try including a strip and new syncro parts, the service manager poo poo'd this saying that if it was not cured time and money would have been wasted so I got a new box. Although in my time at a Honda dealer many gearboxes were stripped and repaired although none were S2k boxes.
Honda may have wanted a strip down to find the problem so that they had a answer should it occur again in another S2k, Mazda wasted 2 years trying to solve a gearbox problem for me before admitting defeat and
changing the box.