Nitrons are go!
11-03-2005, 09:57 AM
#161
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Reply from AST:
Does this all make sense and should I be asking them any other questions?
Hi Rahul,
As they are completly ride height adjustable this is no problem, the front spring is 140mm long with a 80mm helper, the original front springs are probably very long as they will have a lot of preload on them? however it is no problem for us as we are using a different design ie, height adjustable.
are you sure about the spring rates your friend is using? usually the front is harder than the rear unless using a massively inboard spring (bmw,honda) or the engine being mid/rear mounted (porsche, lotus) however i am happy to supply any rate you would like.
AST at the moment are using a 90n/mm front (510lbs) and 80n/mm rear (450lbs) these rates are designed with smooth european roads in mind, personally i would try a slightly softer spring 70f and 60r, for the simple reason that our roads are much worse than Europes and Japans! the S2000 dampers are quite far inboard so the spring rate is not a direct wheel spring rate (on the rear of a civic type r its a 2-1 ratio so we have to use a 150n/mm (856lbs) spring! however the wheel rate is 75n/mm (428lbs)!
The small length of pipe you can see in the pics are the rear adjuster exstensions so you can adjust them in the boot.
"helper springs" are small, soft springs which allow you to run a short main spring so you can get the ride height low, but not allow the springs to come loose on full droop like some other cheap kits.
We have set up many S2000's in the past so we know what settings work very well, AST assure me they have no problems with fitment as they currently sell large numbers of kits to japan and germany. If you wanted to have a set fitted as a guinea pig this is no problem, it would also give us the chance to experiment with some different spring rates to find one which suites you as a driver.
Regards
Curtis
As they are completly ride height adjustable this is no problem, the front spring is 140mm long with a 80mm helper, the original front springs are probably very long as they will have a lot of preload on them? however it is no problem for us as we are using a different design ie, height adjustable.
are you sure about the spring rates your friend is using? usually the front is harder than the rear unless using a massively inboard spring (bmw,honda) or the engine being mid/rear mounted (porsche, lotus) however i am happy to supply any rate you would like.
AST at the moment are using a 90n/mm front (510lbs) and 80n/mm rear (450lbs) these rates are designed with smooth european roads in mind, personally i would try a slightly softer spring 70f and 60r, for the simple reason that our roads are much worse than Europes and Japans! the S2000 dampers are quite far inboard so the spring rate is not a direct wheel spring rate (on the rear of a civic type r its a 2-1 ratio so we have to use a 150n/mm (856lbs) spring! however the wheel rate is 75n/mm (428lbs)!
The small length of pipe you can see in the pics are the rear adjuster exstensions so you can adjust them in the boot.
"helper springs" are small, soft springs which allow you to run a short main spring so you can get the ride height low, but not allow the springs to come loose on full droop like some other cheap kits.
We have set up many S2000's in the past so we know what settings work very well, AST assure me they have no problems with fitment as they currently sell large numbers of kits to japan and germany. If you wanted to have a set fitted as a guinea pig this is no problem, it would also give us the chance to experiment with some different spring rates to find one which suites you as a driver.
Regards
Curtis
11-03-2005, 02:21 PM
#162
Thread Starter
"The small length of pipe you can see in the pics are the rear adjuster exstensions so you can adjust them in the boot"
I'll be intereted to see how well they work
They're fitted lots of S2000 kits bit didn't know that that until MY04 the front springs were softer than the rears?
I'll be intereted to see how well they work
They're fitted lots of S2000 kits bit didn't know that that until MY04 the front springs were softer than the rears?
11-03-2005, 02:38 PM
#163
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Originally Posted by Paper Lawyer,Nov 3 2005, 11:21 PM
"The small length of pipe you can see in the pics are the rear adjuster exstensions so you can adjust them in the boot"
I'll be intereted to see how well they work
They're fitted lots of S2000 kits bit didn't know that that until MY04 the front springs were softer than the rears?
I'll be intereted to see how well they work
They're fitted lots of S2000 kits bit didn't know that that until MY04 the front springs were softer than the rears?
I too got the impression from this email that I was being lied to. If they have done many S2000's then surely they would know the exact setup unless of course he means that AST have done a lot of setups but not them.
Like I mentioned earlier Craig, I need to trust and respect the company and at the moment I don't! Unless they change their dealings with me and tell me how things stand they will be out of the equation.
11-03-2005, 10:31 PM
#164
Thread Starter
You will recall from my thread that Leda were confident about fitting their system to the S2000, yet a couple of weeks into the discussion process it became obvious that they didn't even recall which type of damper the S2000 has 
Luckily I had some help from a much wiser S2000 modder who quickly pointed out Leda's misunderstanding. It didn't give me much faith though I was so glad when I spoke to Guy at Nitron, very friendly, knowledgeable and willing to go the extra mile.
Luckily I had some help from a much wiser S2000 modder who quickly pointed out Leda's misunderstanding. It didn't give me much faith though I was so glad when I spoke to Guy at Nitron, very friendly, knowledgeable and willing to go the extra mile.
12-16-2005, 01:46 AM
#165
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Rahula, have you had any feedback from Tein yet, with regards to their spring rates, and being able to change them? I have also been caught up with the whole Tein setup up with EDFC, I think the ease of adjustment from inside your car is a big 
I appreciate Mr. Paper Lawyer's comments, and I think he is spot on, but I just can't bring myself to stump up 2.5k (incl. fitting) even if it is now generally considered the 'daddy' of coilovers. I can also see why Paper Lawyer spent 18 months researching all this! I take my hat of to you sir!
Admittedly though, I do more motorway crusing in the S then trackdays and I think based on this I will be goin for the Tein setup... so long as they can do something about those f"ing spring rates!
Here are the Specs from the Tein Flex Damper (for use with the EDFC)
* Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload.
* 16 levels of damping force adjustment (compression and rebound together).
* Teflon coating for rust prevention.
* Newly designed spring seat and spring seat lock for easy height adjusting.
* The FLEX damper kit includes pillow ball upper mounts
* Available for overhaul.
The compression and rebound are adjusted together, throw in the ride-height adjustment and that means they are two-way adjustable. Exactly like the KW Variant 2 and the AST and all the other sub 1.8k coilover kits. So in the end, its all about the spring rates!
I appreciate Mr. Paper Lawyer's comments, and I think he is spot on, but I just can't bring myself to stump up 2.5k (incl. fitting) even if it is now generally considered the 'daddy' of coilovers. I can also see why Paper Lawyer spent 18 months researching all this! I take my hat of to you sir!
Admittedly though, I do more motorway crusing in the S then trackdays and I think based on this I will be goin for the Tein setup... so long as they can do something about those f"ing spring rates!
Here are the Specs from the Tein Flex Damper (for use with the EDFC)
* Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload.
* 16 levels of damping force adjustment (compression and rebound together).
* Teflon coating for rust prevention.
* Newly designed spring seat and spring seat lock for easy height adjusting.
* The FLEX damper kit includes pillow ball upper mounts
* Available for overhaul.
The compression and rebound are adjusted together, throw in the ride-height adjustment and that means they are two-way adjustable. Exactly like the KW Variant 2 and the AST and all the other sub 1.8k coilover kits. So in the end, its all about the spring rates!
12-16-2005, 01:53 AM
#166
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Okay the Spring Rates for the Tein Flex Dampers are:
Front & Rear: 560lbs/inch! In metric terms, thats 10kgf/mm!!
Compare that to Paper Lawyers 300lbs/in at the front and 375lbs/in at the rear and the comment about the skateboard is right!
Front & Rear: 560lbs/inch! In metric terms, thats 10kgf/mm!!
Compare that to Paper Lawyers 300lbs/in at the front and 375lbs/in at the rear and the comment about the skateboard is right!
12-16-2005, 02:05 AM
#167
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Originally Posted by grantedS2k,Dec 16 2005, 10:46 AM
I appreciate Mr. Paper Lawyer's comments, and I think he is spot on, but I just can't bring myself to stump up 2.5k (incl. fitting) even if it is now generally considered the 'daddy' of coilovers.
12-16-2005, 02:17 AM
#168
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Yes they do, 1170.00 excluding VAT, if I'm not mistaken. And they fall into the sub GBP1.8k, two-way adjustable category.
With my experience, I'm going to be sticking to the two-way adjustable setups, and i think this is where the Tein stuff comes in. I can setup four settings using the EDFC in exactly the same way that you and Mikey are doing with the sports setup with out getting out of the car. And I have found Tein's customer service quite good, after my bonnet damper. And the prices are not too dissimilar from the Nitron Sports setup.
I have now sent Tein UK an email asking about different springs, we'll see what they say!
With my experience, I'm going to be sticking to the two-way adjustable setups, and i think this is where the Tein stuff comes in. I can setup four settings using the EDFC in exactly the same way that you and Mikey are doing with the sports setup with out getting out of the car. And I have found Tein's customer service quite good, after my bonnet damper. And the prices are not too dissimilar from the Nitron Sports setup.
I have now sent Tein UK an email asking about different springs, we'll see what they say!
12-16-2005, 02:22 AM
#169
Thread Starter
The remote reservoir is standard on the track and race set ups, not the sports model. The sport has a single adjuster for both compression and rebound, the track model has separate adjustment for compression and rebound, whereas the race has separate adjusters for high and low speed compression and rebound. Otherwise the shocks are identical
Various people have considered buying shocks which have high spring rates, with the intention of replacing the springs with lower rate springs. You also have to bear in mind that the shock's valving will also be set to work well with the standard springs that they are shipped with. My Nitrons were dynoed against the stock dampers and the valving set to work with the spring rates I specified. Of course there's a certain amount of leeway with spring rates (you have compression and rebound adjustment to compensate), but if you go for drastically different spring rates with any damper then the valving is not going to be so "in tune" with the springs.
Various people have considered buying shocks which have high spring rates, with the intention of replacing the springs with lower rate springs. You also have to bear in mind that the shock's valving will also be set to work well with the standard springs that they are shipped with. My Nitrons were dynoed against the stock dampers and the valving set to work with the spring rates I specified. Of course there's a certain amount of leeway with spring rates (you have compression and rebound adjustment to compensate), but if you go for drastically different spring rates with any damper then the valving is not going to be so "in tune" with the springs.