My Experiment: An end to heat saturation?
#11
Registered User
Originally Posted by lower,Nov 3 2006, 09:26 AM
When you say you are measuring inlet air temp, are you measuring the temperature of the airflow through the manifold or the temperature of the manifold itself?
Would be interesting to see the temperatures of the inlet air as it enters the filter and compare that with the inlet air temp inside the manifold.
i would expect that with the volumes of air ingested into the engine, the inlet manfold temperature wouldn't have a huge inpact on intake air flow temperatures but it would be interesting to see.
the reason i say that is that i'm working on a heat exchanger design at work at the moment as an energy saving project. To get noticeable heat transfer, the surface area has to be massive.
Would be interesting to see the temperatures of the inlet air as it enters the filter and compare that with the inlet air temp inside the manifold.
i would expect that with the volumes of air ingested into the engine, the inlet manfold temperature wouldn't have a huge inpact on intake air flow temperatures but it would be interesting to see.
the reason i say that is that i'm working on a heat exchanger design at work at the moment as an energy saving project. To get noticeable heat transfer, the surface area has to be massive.
I don't know how much is the honda sensor itself - is just picking up the temp of the manifold itself..rather than the average temp of the actual mass of air traveling through it..
I never actually checked where the sensor was.. can somebody point it out?
and I agree on heat exchange.. if you were wanting to heat air.. passing it through the manifold wouldn't be that useful.. though it does get incredibly hot..so the differential is significant..
however in the end, the ECU alters it's program based on that sensor readings.. something is impacting that sensor..
#13
Well spotted , yes the rad and parts are water cooling parts for a computer .
A PC runs on 12V as does a car it made sense.
The rad is supposed to be good for 300W... i have another one if required.
The most agressive test will be the idle test which is nice because
i can test this without having the electronics wired into the car.
At idle the throttle is almost closed , cool air is restricted , no
air enters the bay and as you can see from the data the temps
get very toasty.
It would be great if the mod slowed the temp rise significantly.
It would be excellent if maintained an almost flat temperature
differential to ambient.
Im pretty excited about this and its fun
In the past people such as XVIPER when investigating
air temp through to throttle body did not measure what
was happening in the manifold itself using the IAT sensor
. So data only exists regarding pipe temperatures. His data
showed that insulation of the air piping and a rad mat was
a good move. This is already done on my car.
Oh and as far as dropping temps in the manifold having
a positive impact this has stated in several posts regardng
the hondata insulator. Just disconnecting the coolant lines
after the insulator is installed allows even more temperature
drop and has been shown to allow more spark advance.
I have some more possible idea's up my sleave but this
is enough for now. As this will depend on the outcome of
this testing.
Laters
Ps. before you all get too excited its an experiment and it
may not work!!
S.
A PC runs on 12V as does a car it made sense.
The rad is supposed to be good for 300W... i have another one if required.
The most agressive test will be the idle test which is nice because
i can test this without having the electronics wired into the car.
At idle the throttle is almost closed , cool air is restricted , no
air enters the bay and as you can see from the data the temps
get very toasty.
It would be great if the mod slowed the temp rise significantly.
It would be excellent if maintained an almost flat temperature
differential to ambient.
Im pretty excited about this and its fun
In the past people such as XVIPER when investigating
air temp through to throttle body did not measure what
was happening in the manifold itself using the IAT sensor
. So data only exists regarding pipe temperatures. His data
showed that insulation of the air piping and a rad mat was
a good move. This is already done on my car.
Oh and as far as dropping temps in the manifold having
a positive impact this has stated in several posts regardng
the hondata insulator. Just disconnecting the coolant lines
after the insulator is installed allows even more temperature
drop and has been shown to allow more spark advance.
I have some more possible idea's up my sleave but this
is enough for now. As this will depend on the outcome of
this testing.
Laters
Ps. before you all get too excited its an experiment and it
may not work!!
S.
#14
Originally Posted by Kobe,Nov 3 2006, 08:44 AM
if you take the number that the ECU "sees" via the honda sensor - then the numbers in the table seem consistent..
I don't know how much is the honda sensor itself - is just picking up the temp of the manifold itself..rather than the average temp of the actual mass of air traveling through it..
I never actually checked where the sensor was.. can somebody point it out?
and I agree on heat exchange.. if you were wanting to heat air.. passing it through the manifold wouldn't be that useful.. though it does get incredibly hot..so the differential is significant..
however in the end, the ECU alters it's program based on that sensor readings.. something is impacting that sensor..
I don't know how much is the honda sensor itself - is just picking up the temp of the manifold itself..rather than the average temp of the actual mass of air traveling through it..
I never actually checked where the sensor was.. can somebody point it out?
and I agree on heat exchange.. if you were wanting to heat air.. passing it through the manifold wouldn't be that useful.. though it does get incredibly hot..so the differential is significant..
however in the end, the ECU alters it's program based on that sensor readings.. something is impacting that sensor..
i would expect the manifold temperature to rise significantly at idle, as you lose the cooling effect of the intake charge going through it. But as the air pressure in the manifold at idle is very low, the temperature transfer to the intake charge is also going to be low.
That makes me thing that the kangarooing might be more related to a sensor issue rather than the actual intake charge temp.
#15
I must admit, i have started to consider other possibilities myself.
However one thing that must be considered is that since the
since the air pressure in the manifold is low the air velocity
will be low giving more chance for the manifold to heat the air.
Unless im missing something..
However one thing that must be considered is that since the
since the air pressure in the manifold is low the air velocity
will be low giving more chance for the manifold to heat the air.
Unless im missing something..
#16
Member
CF inlet manifold - job done
There was one for sale a while back.
At idle the TB is totally closed (IIRC), air is pumped in by primary airpump, behind the TB.
Souds good though.
Did you look at heat reflective lagging / insulation? There is a lot of radiatingheat in there too, as well as that transferred from the head to the inlet manifold.
MB
There was one for sale a while back.
At idle the TB is totally closed (IIRC), air is pumped in by primary airpump, behind the TB.
Souds good though.
Did you look at heat reflective lagging / insulation? There is a lot of radiatingheat in there too, as well as that transferred from the head to the inlet manifold.
MB
#17
Originally Posted by Sniper_S2K,Nov 3 2006, 11:13 AM
I must admit, i have started to consider other possibilities myself.
However one thing that must be considered is that since the
since the air pressure in the manifold is low the air velocity
will be low giving more chance for the manifold to heat the air.
Unless im missing something..
However one thing that must be considered is that since the
since the air pressure in the manifold is low the air velocity
will be low giving more chance for the manifold to heat the air.
Unless im missing something..
I would expect there to be much more of a problem with the inlet sucking in hot air that has been through the radiator and that causing a kangarooing problem.
however, this is all speculative and not based on any measurement so i'm not wanting to piss on anybody's fireworks.
#18
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Originally Posted by Sniper_S2K,Nov 2 2006, 06:43 PM
.... with a CAI ( K&N FIPK ) + insulated air pipe, AUT plate and scoop
I know that since I did the coolant bypass last weekend my manifold only gets lukewarm after a 15min blast.
#19
Thanks for all replying , damn i love the UK forums
Just collected some test data , i may give it a go after work
later. If so ill try and post the results. it will be a quick post
though.
Interesting after getting home this lunch time and letting the
car sit , inlet manifold soaking up heat. When i started
my measurements the temp was 50 degree's this
increased to 57 degree's after 15 mins of idling.
Dark Blue Mark,
neverheard of a CF manifold is that expensive?
And yes i have done the lagging insulation thing.
StevenM, yup my manifold is luke warm too after
i did that bypass. I guessing 25 degree's on a fast run
of course no data yet. Ill get the data for the Insulator
and TB coolant bypass next week in the same format
as before. The rad plate does block the vents at the
front and channels the air into the K&N FIPK box.
Could cold air entering the engine bay cool the TB
more... maybe.
Lower thanks for the education.
Sniper.
Just collected some test data , i may give it a go after work
later. If so ill try and post the results. it will be a quick post
though.
Interesting after getting home this lunch time and letting the
car sit , inlet manifold soaking up heat. When i started
my measurements the temp was 50 degree's this
increased to 57 degree's after 15 mins of idling.
Dark Blue Mark,
neverheard of a CF manifold is that expensive?
And yes i have done the lagging insulation thing.
StevenM, yup my manifold is luke warm too after
i did that bypass. I guessing 25 degree's on a fast run
of course no data yet. Ill get the data for the Insulator
and TB coolant bypass next week in the same format
as before. The rad plate does block the vents at the
front and channels the air into the K&N FIPK box.
Could cold air entering the engine bay cool the TB
more... maybe.
Lower thanks for the education.
Sniper.