Quest S2000

10k, and that's without a core charge...
I'm sure they're great engines, but that seems crazy!

Nottm_S2

I know nothing about them but you are talking £5k for a short block in the UK, that then needs put together with a refurbed head (entirely viable I guess but not very cheap) just to get a standard motor

What Chris is after in the UK is hard to get, having watched from afar

Jay Elliott-Purdy

Darton sleeved bottom end not an option?!
doesn’t that make the frm irrelevant and just turn it into a normal engine build?

There are a lot of race cars running stroked f20 engines in the uk without blowing up.

cpl n clockwise seem the most sensible but it’s gonna be £10-15k depending how crazy you go.

let me know what you do as i’ll want to do mine.

oneEYEziggy has a very fast NA car, his laptimes are mega!! Toda rods, pistons n cams and at power itbs.


Mike Thomson also on itb’s and has mega fast car as well.

chrispayze

Yeh, through many discussions, it seems that, for approaching OEM reliability, it's generally better to stick with the FRM liners and near-OEM parts. I want to be able to do thousands of miles on this engine, not a few hundred a year on track, then a rebuild every couple of years.

Currently talking to Dan at HPE, who works with Clockwise. Clockwise is too busy with race engines to do anything road based, but Dan is happy to do the build and use Clockwise for the machining.

They've recommended an OEM crank, with Mahle high compression pistons. The problem is getting rods. The other option I've suggested is a Toda stroker kit, which uses a balanced OEM crank, with their own rods and high compression pistons. They're the two main companies who cater for the FRM liners.

Apparently, with that, a bit of head work and some cams (and a tune, obviously), it should get me my power, reliability and driveability aims.

mtunreal

Cheers for the shout out Jay. Just to note, that time was set on a completely standard S/H motor, OEM intake with a 69mm TB. ITB's have been sat on the shelf whilst deciding what to do this year.

mtunreal

I think you are almost on the right tracks with rebuild. I know from discussions with the known builders the F20C is capable of producing 300-320bhp, but you are literally on hours running. This is purely the race bred, rally spec, no expensive spared. Losts of expensive ancillaries like dry sump systems and multiple rebuilds required in its lifetime.

OEM spec is definitely the direction to pursue for reliability. Mahle piston is good direction and one that can yeild good results. Reports are the machining has to be right to no ball up the piston skirt coating, and it'll be good to go. Two cavets with Mahle is the conrod and compression. The conrod isn't like oem and has a bushing with the pin which isn't an ideal configuration. The compression at 12.5:1 puts over the cusp for running pump fuel around 100RON (UK Specs). It'll likely pull a touch of timing in the tune. 12:1 is roughly the limit on our fuel, advised by a really excellent tuner (what you gain in compression is robbed in ignition).

If you are pursuing ITB's as a route forward, they will really respond to compression and cams. My original engine on ITB's did not have any power gains over the OG plenum/TB. It ran out of compression to make use of the air gains. Still plenty of fuel on the OEM injectors. Cams are a proper nightmare on these units. Whatever you gain in one area is robbed from somewhere else. The other part of the cams is having the head machined and prepared to suit. TODA requires the rocker arm notching, which doesn't seem ideal. Spring setup is also required to ensure no float and covered for the RPM range.

Ideally the best route forward from my experience would be largely an OEM configruation for what you want. JDM OEM pistons are the holy grail, to give you the 11.7:1 compression. Few thou off the head to give you a .2 /.3 bump towards 12:1 compression, which is perfect for maximising pump fuel and timing. No need for octane boosters or fancy fuelling. ITB's for the compression and the glory of being cool. OEM rods, crank and cams. The adjustable cam gear is useful to correct the timing of the head work to bring the cam timing back in. I can't say how much that would make on your dyno, but its certainly getting towards your target numbers (270ish?).

chrispayze

That's really useful and sensible stuff, thanks. So difficult to find genuine 'been there, done that and not' trying to justify my own choices' info!

Funnily enough, I just asked them about fuel (haven't had a response yet. Is it possible to wind off enough timing to run it on 97RON in emergencies? Or is this strictly a V-Power only option?

If JDM pistons and 2.2L rods were more easily obtainable, I think that would be a great route. Interesting that they've recommended to stick with a plenum and intake, rather than ITBs (mainly due to the constant fettling required), but I suspect I'll go there eventually. It's also a cost thing. Gonna be circa £10k without the ITBs!

Jayc87

Bourne hpp based in maldon essex.. give those guys a shout.

chrispayze

Saw their stuff available through Tegiwa, but couldn't find any info about them, particularly with the F20c.

Nottm_S2

Seen this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115993957...mis&media=COPY