Gaspode

The Honda tune is actually very good in the newer cars.

MUG3N

To be honest it was only a matter of cash flow for my previous mods, as I recouped most of my money. The Mugen N1 ECU and my mods totally transformed my car and the driving experience, it felt like a race car. Is it worth it for a road car? I would say YES totally, in fact when the mods were removed the car was totally dull to drive in comparison. Everyone who had a standard S and drove my car could feel the transformation and commented on how good it was to drive, something that no dyno can show.

I understand your points, but your car would be a dull drive by comparison

MB

ODM, mine isn't really going to be a road car, but even so, the increase I have makes it a much more flexible road car.

I'ts not 10 bhp or so in my case, i've got upto 30 in the midrange and 20-30 peak over standard by all accounts. Yep it's expensive but I would prefer not to go FI for using the car on track so it's the only option.

The power has come from breathing mods, but also lowering the AFR to a safe level but whilst also extracting power.

Not sure I get the point about reliability / false economy? Honda and all manufuacturers do set the fuelling safe for margin of safety reasons, but it's there to be eroded I've had nearly ever car i've owned mapped, and AFR tweaked down, as do thousands of others with no ill effects. It's a case of understanding how fuelling / cooling works.

s2konroids

I have took a few mods off mine, my intake and exhaust and its definetly not as perky/responsive.

OldDogmeat

Mark, with the reliability/false economy comment I'm imagining that Honda tuned the motor on the safe side and thus less likely to throw up issues longer term? The false economy being that if the motor subsequently goes pop or parts wear out prematurely then the outlay could be hefty down the line.

I'm only guessing at the above though and dont have the kind of knowledge that you have for engine tuning. hence my curiosity.

In your case I can see clearly why you are doing what you are to the car, I was more puzzled really at the person who uses the car as a DD who throws £ at it to get small gains.

Having said that, we all enjoy driving these cars and STI makes a good case above.

s2konroids

Dogmeat,

We sometimes get onlookers or people that pop into my mates tuning place and ask the same questions as you.

Honda/car manufacturers tune/make the car the way it is for a number a reasons...

*Yes reliability (though it can be just as reliable this is where the quality of tune come in).
*Emmisions
*Economy
*Noise
*Lower performance for insurance
*Earlier models (first version) - tweeks to later ones
*Cost of parts
*Safe guards for average drivers
*Maintenance or lack of

It all depends on exactly what you are doing and to what extent.

An example is, i can leave the car in 6th/5th on a motorway and it will pull, stock I usually had to down shift.

I think most people here just 'enjoy' tinkering/tuning whether its on the road or a track, its addictive and slippery slope but its just 'fun' at the end of the day.

Gaspode

What I'm finding out from this is...

Adding breathing mods etc can net you a few bhp. - which is a good thing.
However - the car may then have the wrong AFR - which is a bad thing.

IIRC - MB's car was discussed after the first dyno run and it was running very lean.


How many S's are out there with bolt on's running a map designed for stock?

s2konroids

Thats right Gas, with bolts on running the stock map it doesnt always run lean throughtout the rev range sometime rich in places. But we then get into ignition timing with is another kettle of fish, on an N/A car the AFR and ignition timing make the power.

My car ran lean at 3-4 rpm, lean at/just before vtec, then rich all the way through vtec.

There are definetly people on here running bolt on's with the stock map.

My car made IIRC 13BHP without a tune with most bolt ons', most gains in midrange/highier up.

MB

Correct.

But it can be eroded safely. If you get too lean then you lose the cooling effect which the extra fuel gives you, so things get too hot. But there is a balance.

When we dyno'd mine with standard ECU and the breathing mods, it was running dangerously lean below 6000 rpm.

I am fairly sure it would have melted in not that long a time!

So the mapping was essential.

s2konroids

Are you going to compare laptimes with your old car Mark? though it might be a difficult due to the scenario not being 100% the same.

Would you not consider a lightweight single? i have settled on the 5zigen its great and not loud at all and no drone.