Kiteland

AquilaEagle

Nick Graves

There is, but compared to faults overall, it's insignificant. A 911 is the best car with 68 faults per 100 cars! Maybe not all catastrophic engine failure but this report by J D Power puts things into perspective:

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
While Vehicle Dependability Continues to Improve, New Technologies and Features Pose Challenges for Automakers
Toyota Motor Corporation Models Receive Seven Awards, While Models from Ford Motor Company Receive Four Awards
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.: 17 March 2011 — Overall vehicle dependability has improved from 2010, with automakers succeeding in reducing problem rates in many traditional areas, but experiencing some challenges in overcoming problems with newer technologies and features, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2011 U.S. Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.
The study, which measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old (2008 model year) vehicles, includes 202 different problem symptoms across all areas of the vehicle. Overall dependability is determined by the level of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100), with a lower score reflecting higher quality.
The Vehicle Dependability Study is used extensively by vehicle manufacturers worldwide to help design and build better vehicles—which typically translates to higher resale values and higher customer loyalty. It also helps consumers make more-informed choices for both new- and used-vehicle purchases. Among new-vehicle shoppers, perception of quality and dependability is the most influential factor in their decision to purchase a specific vehicle model, according to J.D. Power and Associates.
In 2011, overall vehicle dependability averages 151 PP100—the lowest problem rate since the inception of the study in 1990—and improves from 170 PP 100 in 2009. Between 2009 and 2011, annual improvement for the industry has averaged 6 percent, which is slightly lower than historical rates of improvement. During the past decade, industry improvement has averaged 8 percent each year.
The slowdown in improvement is largely attributable to increased rates of problems with electronic features in vehicles, including audio, entertainment and navigation systems and new safety features, such as tire pressure monitoring systems.
“Automakers, as a whole, have made significant improvements in reducing traditional problems, particularly with vehicle interiors; engines and transmissions; and steering and braking during the past several years,” said David Sargent, vice president of global vehicle research at J.D. Power and Associates. “However, as manufacturers add new features and technologies to satisfy customer demand and new legislation, they face the potential for introducing new problems.”
According to Sargent, as newer technologies become more widespread, enhancing the dependability of these features has become an important point of differentiation among automakers.
Highest-Ranked Nameplates and Models
For the first time since the inception of the study, Lincoln leads the overall nameplate rankings in 2011. Lincoln improves by 13 PP100 from 2010. Lexus follows Lincoln in the nameplate rankings. Rounding out the top five nameplates are Jaguar, Porsche and Toyota. The Porsche 911 has the fewest problems in the industry, with just 68 PP100.
Toyota Motor Corporation continues to perform well in long-term dependability and garners seven segment awards—more than any other automaker in 2011—for the Lexus RX, Scion xB, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Prius, Toyota Sienna, Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Tundra. Ford Motor Company receives four model awards for the Ford Fusion, Ford Mustang, Lincoln MKZ and Lincoln Navigator. General Motors (Buick Lucerne, Cadillac DTS, and Chevrolet Tahoe) and Honda Motor Company (Acura RL, Honda CR-V and Honda Fit) each receive three awards. In addition, the following models also receive awards: BMW X3, Mazda MX-5 Miata, and Mercedes-Benz CLK.
The study finds that while domestic brands have closed the gap in initial quality with import brands, there is still a considerable difference between the two in vehicle dependability, with import brands outperforming domestic brands by 18 PP100 in 2011. This is consistent with findings of the 2008 Initial Quality Study,SM which examined the models included in the 2011 VDS after 90 days of ownership. While domestic brand cars have fewer problems (135 PP100, on average) than import brand cars (147 PP100, on average), trucks and crossover vehicles1 of import brands have considerably fewer problems than those of domestic brands.
In addition to affecting brand image and brand loyalty, long-term dependability also has a notable effect on dealership service and customer service spending. As the number of problems experienced increases, owners are increasingly likely to use non-dealer service facilities for paid service work. In addition, as the number of problems increases, the percentage of owners who say they “definitely will” return to their dealer for service diminishes. Among owners who indicate they have experienced no problems, 76 percent indicate they “definitely will” return to the dealer for paid service. This proportion decreases to 42 percent among owners who say they experienced six or more problems.
The 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 43,700 original owners of 2008 model-year vehicles after three years of ownership. The study was fielded between October and December 2010.
Find more detailed findings on vehicle dependability as well as model photos and specs by reading an article and reviewing brand and segment dependability ratings at JDPower.com.
1The truck category includes both pickup trucks and vans, while the crossover vehicle category includes crossover vehicles, multi-purpose vehicles and utility vehicles.
About J.D. Power and Associates
Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is a global marketing information services company providing forecasting, performance improvement, social media and customer satisfaction insights and solutions. The company’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. For more information on car reviews and ratings, car insurance, health insurance, cell phone ratings, and more, please visit JDPower.com. J.D. Power and Associates is a business unit of The McGraw-Hill Companies.

tailhappy

Run a mile fella. The residuals will be awful.

s2k4tony

It's like the Honda Accord Type R... Famously the car was designed with a chocolate gearbox, the synchro's were buggered on practically every car. Some went at 20k miles, some at 120k... But most suffered by the time the car had 70-80k miles. Did Honda recall this poor design? Nope... They did try and improve on Post models, but some still suffered the issue. Residuals now... £1.5k - £2.5k is where these cars sit now. Buying one of these makes you mindful of the synchro being a £800-£1k fix.. Brilliant, brilliant cars though, aside from the issue.
I doubt the market will expose the 09s as problem cars. The 58/09 issue will remain as having a "bad batch" or poorly machined with old tools. Who knows...
It's a thread that will be alive for a long time, and watched with considerable interest.

martin j

Ta AE.

StuDuckworth

Hi, i was thinking of an 09 car but having been told of the 09 car issues (or potential issues) i've been put off one really.
Without me reading the entire thread can someone confirm which plates of cars are looking like being affected by this? Is it 09 plates only or are 07/57/08/58 etc plates also affected?

TIA.

Stookystar

From memory, the problems started on the last reincarnation of the car with the newer alloys - 08 plates onwards.

Mine was a 57 - the last but one generation of S2000's - with the 10 spoke alloys and I don't remember anyone with this era of car experiencing any problems. Indeed, my car always seemed absolutely bullet proof.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be along to correct me if i've got my facts screwy!

loftust

As an Engineer, I can safely say that nothing takes this long to resolve if the right amount of effort is put in. Christ, I've seen significantly more defects from the cradle that is a brand new fault developing onboard a ship, to the grave where a solution has been developed, tested, and implemented throughout the Fleet. This is in an environment that has a ridiculously stretched budget, more red tape than a Labour conference, extremely high standards to achieve, and with significantly less people to act upon it.

Updates on what? These are moving parts, not complex programming algorithms or satellite uplinks! I fail to see why they are taking so much time with such limited components to look at...it's only an engine/gearbox!

That's because they are good at delivering spiel to convince people...they do market products after all. Weekly reports? If they can't say, or rather won't say, it's because they are not doing enough to provide a credible update. I suspect the weekly report is along the lines of: "yeah, we're still looking at these 2 cars every now and then...nothing found". If a few of us here had their resources available, I'm pretty damned sure the root issue would have identified many, many months ago. If they were truly making head way, they wouldn't be so secretive about it. The problem has been widely publicised online, especially here...that is enough to put many off. If Honda were truly committed to providing a solution that does not put owners out of pocket, then they would have publicised their efforts too, proving that their after-sales care is worth something.

I'm by no means trying to stir here, but if you think that an organisation with Honda's knowledge and facilities are STILL 'investigating', and are making acceptable progress, then you're a fool. I do not mean to cause offence either, but you need to take a reality check and stopped being drawn in by whatever Honda are saying behind closed doors and wake up to smell the coffee.

GREGSTERWIZ

Loftust is right

In my opinion Honda have known the cause of the failures for many, many months. Possibly years.

Keep on believing Honda will come clean if you wish but in my opinion they will never admit to a cock up which will damage the reputation of the brand

Some of you seem to be in denial