Information for 09 owners
11-17-2011, 01:10 AM
#591
I know why all these late Honda's are blowing up/failing. The tooling for building the engines, gearboxes etc needed replacing but they took a chance that it would last the run out period and it didn't. So everything is failing as Honda Japan didnt want to have to spend a fortune replacing the equipment for a car that they knew the nearing the end of its production. Sad but the truth. My heart goes out to all those late S2k owners.
11-17-2011, 02:30 AM
#592
I know why all these late Honda's are blowing up/failing. The tooling for building the engines, gearboxes etc needed replacing but they took a chance that it would last the run out period and it didn't. So everything is failing as Honda Japan didnt want to have to spend a fortune replacing the equipment for a car that they knew the nearing the end of its production. Sad but the truth. My heart goes out to all those late S2k owners.
Something has changed, hence the engines failing. But it's not what you describe. Honda may have problems with these engines, but its not British Leyland.
11-17-2011, 04:33 AM
#593
Registered User
[quote name='98RON'I had myself wondered if the engine failures were due to a change in supplier of some key component (to save money on a car that Honda always claimed to have lost money on anyway), but haven't Honda always made ALL the bits that REALLY matter in the engine themselves?
[/quote]
I guess even by making it all yourself you can't avoid your material supplier to change the composition of the bearing material they deliver to you in order for you to to produce the bearings yourself.
You're always dependant on others, no matter how much of it you make yourself.
Though if they'd purposefully changed the way they put the engines together, ie different items/suppliers/machinery then they wouldn't have taken so long to find out what the cause of the problem is.
If it really is wear on their 'tooling' than I assume the problems would've gotten worse over the years and not just start somewhere in 08 and never get worse till end of production in 09?
[/quote]
I guess even by making it all yourself you can't avoid your material supplier to change the composition of the bearing material they deliver to you in order for you to to produce the bearings yourself.
You're always dependant on others, no matter how much of it you make yourself.
Though if they'd purposefully changed the way they put the engines together, ie different items/suppliers/machinery then they wouldn't have taken so long to find out what the cause of the problem is.
If it really is wear on their 'tooling' than I assume the problems would've gotten worse over the years and not just start somewhere in 08 and never get worse till end of production in 09?
11-17-2011, 07:37 AM
#594
Which means that you can track each component or batch of components back to a material certificate that tells you what the composition of the material was used in its manufacture.
Common in industries like automotive or aerospace to help prevent exactly the sort of problem the 09 cars are suffering from.
11-17-2011, 07:53 AM
#595
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On another planet
Posts: 1,471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was told by Honda UK a while back that it definately isn't an issue with bearings
With that in mind I'd say it isn't a supplier issue. If it was Honda would pass on any associated costs to the suppliers.
I agree with tailhappy; cost cutting and not re-tooling the production line
It's a guess but an informed one
Also probably not an easy fix. The machines which manufactured the engine blocks, etc. may well have been scrapped
Apologies to affected owners. I appreciate this isn't something you'd like to hear and it is worst case scenario.
And it is speculation after all. The only people with the answers are Honda and they aren't telling.
With that in mind I'd say it isn't a supplier issue. If it was Honda would pass on any associated costs to the suppliers.
I agree with tailhappy; cost cutting and not re-tooling the production line
It's a guess but an informed one
Also probably not an easy fix. The machines which manufactured the engine blocks, etc. may well have been scrapped
Apologies to affected owners. I appreciate this isn't something you'd like to hear and it is worst case scenario.
And it is speculation after all. The only people with the answers are Honda and they aren't telling.
11-17-2011, 08:21 AM
#596
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It costs millions to re-tool. Tools wear over the duration of time. You don't spend millions when the car is at the end of its production unless you have to. Blame the accountants. All in the name of cost cutting/saving money. A gamble was taken and it has resulted with this nightmare.
I was advised this was the reason by a specialist who is well aware of the problems and to quote "I'll bet my life Honda havn't retooled and this is why all the engines/gearboxes are failing".
Will Honda admit this? doubtfull as it will open the flood gates for claims.
I was advised this was the reason by a specialist who is well aware of the problems and to quote "I'll bet my life Honda havn't retooled and this is why all the engines/gearboxes are failing".
Will Honda admit this? doubtfull as it will open the flood gates for claims.
11-17-2011, 08:37 AM
#597
You are claiming hypothesis as fact. We accountants are good at spotting that.
The engine was a low-production volume design and the tooling wear rates would be extended accordingly; the BMC B-series tooling WAS knackered & they used fag papers to true it up. That was when it was 40 years old and the anecdote is documented.
Unless you have prima facie evidence that the machine tools at Suzaka were worn (especially since in flexible manufacture, they could well be producing parts for several engines) you might as well say god done it.
The engine was a low-production volume design and the tooling wear rates would be extended accordingly; the BMC B-series tooling WAS knackered & they used fag papers to true it up. That was when it was 40 years old and the anecdote is documented.
Unless you have prima facie evidence that the machine tools at Suzaka were worn (especially since in flexible manufacture, they could well be producing parts for several engines) you might as well say god done it.
11-17-2011, 10:14 AM
#599
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are claiming hypothesis as fact. We accountants are good at spotting that.
The engine was a low-production volume design and the tooling wear rates would be extended accordingly; the BMC B-series tooling WAS knackered & they used fag papers to true it up. That was when it was 40 years old and the anecdote is documented.
Unless you have prima facie evidence that the machine tools at Suzaka were worn (especially since in flexible manufacture, they could well be producing parts for several engines) you might as well say god done it.
The engine was a low-production volume design and the tooling wear rates would be extended accordingly; the BMC B-series tooling WAS knackered & they used fag papers to true it up. That was when it was 40 years old and the anecdote is documented.
Unless you have prima facie evidence that the machine tools at Suzaka were worn (especially since in flexible manufacture, they could well be producing parts for several engines) you might as well say god done it.
11-17-2011, 10:54 AM
#600
Originally Posted by Nick Graves' timestamp='1321551463' post='21164407
You are claiming hypothesis as fact. We accountants are good at spotting that.
The engine was a low-production volume design and the tooling wear rates would be extended accordingly; the BMC B-series tooling WAS knackered & they used fag papers to true it up. That was when it was 40 years old and the anecdote is documented.
Unless you have prima facie evidence that the machine tools at Suzaka were worn (especially since in flexible manufacture, they could well be producing parts for several engines) you might as well say god done it.
The engine was a low-production volume design and the tooling wear rates would be extended accordingly; the BMC B-series tooling WAS knackered & they used fag papers to true it up. That was when it was 40 years old and the anecdote is documented.
Unless you have prima facie evidence that the machine tools at Suzaka were worn (especially since in flexible manufacture, they could well be producing parts for several engines) you might as well say god done it.
What, a back specialist?