arsie

Maybe I have forgotten but is the noise definitely a pre-warning of engine failure? i.e. to the point where it loses power/won't run/belches oil? And if so how many miles to failure?

If not, I can see the 'thrust' (!) of HUK's preferred solution that it is a new characteristic S2000 noise.

In which case, is there a legal leg to stand on?

unclefester

One of Bokkies failed engines started out as a mild 'loose exhaust' sound, it then changed to a broken CAT sound and within 1000 miles of that it had got to the point where the car was deemed unfit to be driven by Johnsons Honda in MK.

How many of the failures are caused by the same fault is the question and now that Bokkies engine bay has been emptied of engine so many times, who is to say the later failures are faulty engines or something that has gone wrong with the installation.

It's a mess and it's the owners of perfectly fine 08 and 09 cars who are going to be suffering the fallout of this for years to come.

Bundle of Mayhem

I believe the Gaspode Death Rattle means exactly that but just when and where is completely different in each case.

I don't have the death rattle, I have the metal on metal noise described as pinking, I also have a whine on the gear box. This whine is apparently also noticeable on an 09 currently on Grimsby Honda's forecourt, or so they tell me. Therefore they have benchmarked it against another 09 and have informed HUK that the noise is on another car and therefore it's been classed as an 'S2000 character' nosie by HUK despite Grimsby asking for authorisation to replace the gearbox. I sorely want to test drive that car and see if I can get it to whine because I don't believe it does (anyone local want to do this for me ). A character noise doesn't just start at 35k.

To make matters worse, I have just picked the car up from the Bodyshop and she looked absolutely beautiful all polished and gleaming and mended and I fell in love with her again.

Got to the end of the road, whine started and I fell out of love with her again.

Honda you are Barstewards!

arsie

Barstewards - and also the first point in the information chain to hold sufficient statistical evidence ...

I think there are enough examples to get a good Watchdog segment together. Gaspode's, Bokkies (when she gives up the ghost on Honda), P1's, Gregweitzer's and yours, BoM. So sad that such a lovely one-off iconic machine should come to this

s2k4tony

Unfortunately Honda's worldwide reputation for reliability won't do that much unless you take on the Co itself. Certainly, making some noise will show them you mean business a little but it will only fade away, due to this massive good reliability reputation.
Its a shame Honda haven't come clean about the poor materials used that have caused this anomoly within the last builds of the S.

Going to the bigger redtops may be a suggestion before a QC is employed with massive evidence against the brand. What a shame on Honda this is, i'm extremely dissapointed after all these years of bragging about owning a Honda... then they do this to their beloved followers (buying their masterpiece car)... sad times for Honda

lower

So how many people actually have the Gaspode death rattle that leads to certain death and how many people have other issues?

GREGSTERWIZ

I think that is an excellent point. Without comparing the cars side by side it is difficult to say. Descriptions of noise are difficult to be precise about when described and not heard.

Of the cars I have listened to all share the same tinny, light metallic vibration/ rattle. The frequency, ie tone, of the noise is akin to a pinking (pre-ignition) noise. It is apparent between 2-3k revs. Some cars are louder than others.

Some cars sound absolutely awful and for Honda dealers to turn customers away saying it is a "characteristic" is ridiculous.
The earlier cars did not make this noise and they did not suffer (many) engines failures. I think it is safe to say the 2 are linked. It could be a bearing issue, it could be an oil pump issue, it could be an issue with the block or the crank, etc.etc. This is not for owners to diagnose, that is Honda's job and they have not done it yet (or made the cause of the noise or the failures public)

I am also reliably informed that a car with the noise which has been investigated TWICE by Honda dealers recently has now started to knock when started from cold. So much for Honda's diagnosis then

And the failed engines list on this thread is not complete. There are more failures that I am aware of. I have the engine numbers.

I am still awaiting a reply from HUK re; Japan's involvement and the next steps.

Legal redress is fine but Honda can probably handle that and without knowing what the cause of the failures is (currently) it is not so simple. A "noise issue" is different to a failure. They have much less control concerning bad press which is fully deserved IMO.

Sadly, this will not help the owners as far as residual values are concerned but I can't think of many other options

IMO it will benefit everyone, Honda included, to deal with the issues now.

Reputations take a long time to build, they can be damaged in the blink of an eye.

s2k4tony

Dealers are pathetic at spotting noises, absolutely pathetic. I took my ATR to the Wigan Honda dealership, I said about a bearing noise and wanted them to change it (keep it all Honda history etc). Service manager thought it was a Civic (what a d*ckhead), then he realized it was the amazing ATR with the chocolate gearbox. He took it out, went out with the TOP tecchie in the garage, 30 years Honda experience, who used to own an ATR... and they blasted it down the M6. They even called me from the car as it was being driven, and they concurred it was just the tread noise from the Goodyear F1 tyres.. £100 charge this was to my wallet. W*nkers.
Next day, I take the car down to a respected specialist in Winsford... My front left wheel bearing was at the point of the wheel falling off, it was that bad. He took it off and showed me, as it spun the bearing was barely moving and had so much wobble, it was shafted. Imagine who would get the blame for that if I had died... you tend to want to trust your dealer.
Dealers are average human beings that have targets, they aren't bothered about an exact problem. They look for the easy way out and the easy way to earn money from the idiot customer. I used to work for one, you've no idea.

Pull together forum and support these guys who are going through hell. Phone BBC watchdog.... they do get things moving you know

Bassoctopus

Good old VTECDIRECT

Maybe Andy could get to the bottom of the engine problem?

arsie

I think the situation is simple ... though I haven't got a sick car and a shattered dream

Honda/UK have data on what is really going on. They delay/save face and money.

We (the forum) have several well documented examples of death rattle.

Short of the extreme cost of a class action in court

I suggest we just get together and

lobby Watchdog

No doubt the S2KUK club will help