Information for 09 owners
07-28-2011, 02:22 AM
#251
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Just had a call from my guy at local Honda and they have gone to town on the car and put in a warranty claim for a new short engine and gear box.
HONDA HAVE REFUSED!
I'm awaiting a full report from the garage in order that I can take this further. Honda have told them to compare it against another 09 model, which they will have in the next couple of days but other than that, I've got to go and pick it up. Garage are very apologetic and annoyed also that they are unable to assist.
One way, I'm glad that finally the garage have acknowledged that there is something majorily wrong with it (as I have known for sometime) but where does this leave me now?
HONDA HAVE REFUSED!
I'm awaiting a full report from the garage in order that I can take this further. Honda have told them to compare it against another 09 model, which they will have in the next couple of days but other than that, I've got to go and pick it up. Garage are very apologetic and annoyed also that they are unable to assist.
One way, I'm glad that finally the garage have acknowledged that there is something majorily wrong with it (as I have known for sometime) but where does this leave me now?
07-29-2011, 03:53 AM
#254
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I've just updated the Jenson thread with latest developments - please see https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/732...t__p__20827205
But given the current focus of this thread, thought I'd add the detail here too:
At the end of last year, Honda replaced Jenson's thrustwashers and did some work on the gearbox and clutch. This resolved the issues with my car and I've had a few months of happy vtec motoring.
However my car has developed yet another irritating noise (nothing like the old rattle, this sounds like metal grinding on metal & gets worse the hotter the car gets - at times it can sound like chirping birds!) Steve Dyer of HUK agreed it was time they saw Jenson first-hand to compare my car with a baseline S. Consequently I recently spent an afternoon with Steve & members of HUK's Technical Team.
I was struck by the distress of the Tech Team when we talked about all the trouble I've had with Jenson - they have a deep affinity for the S which was evident throughout the 3 hours I spent with them. The upshot is HUK agree there is an unusual noise which is neither gearbox nor clutch & they are going to investigate further. They collected Jenson this morning to run a series of tests and will pass those results to engineers in Japan for analysis. Fingers crossed: when I get Jenson back, all is resolved. Especially as I'm off on a 2,300 mile Eurohoon on 12 August!
But over & above sorting Jenson, the afternoon was an opportunity to speak firsthand with HUK to voice my frustration at their ongoing silence & to attempt to understand what is going on behind the scenes. I've had a rollercoaster ride of emotions with my car over the past 22 months. In just over 2 years of ownership, Jenson has spent more than 4 months in Honda workshops so you can appreciate my distress.
Anyway, I want this to be a reassuring post so enough on that front.
I was impressed at the behind the scenes analysis & investigation which is taking place across global Honda - yes, Japan are definitely involved - but HUK are leading this given the numbers we've seen locally. There is a lot of hard work going on to collate & analyse data regarding warranty claims, with particular emphasis on the rattle, thrustwashers & engine troubles.
I think it's important to point out that although we've all been concerned about the rattle/pinking/pinging/knocking noises on 08/09 S2000s (I've had engines from both years replaced) it's not yet clear whether this is a pre-cursor to engine trouble or a new characteristic S noise. This is what Honda are working hard to establish.
I understand that only a very small number of cars with the now-familiar "rattle" have presented with swarf in the sump. And it is thus only in these very small number of cases that any deeper engine issue is at present suspected - hence the difficulty in pinning down a root cause to date. But this research is ongoing (hence Jenson's latest trip without me) and I appreciate that until this research & analysis is complete, Honda will not be in a position to make a legal/public statement. That's a bitter pill for us ardent S2k owners & enthusiasts to swallow but is a commercial fact. But for the first time in 2 years, I feel Honda have indeed been listening; they have acknowledged my concerns and I feel reassured at their professionalism.
As things stand Honda are also not in a position to brief the dealer network - given that the analysis has yet to yield definitive results. I argued against this but understand their position. However, Steve assures me that the HUK Customer Service Team has been briefed to ensure a consistent message is issued to dealers in response to their enquiries on behalf of S2k owners with rattling cars.
I should like to thank Steve & his team for their time & for their continued (albeit discrete) efforts on our behalf. Hopefully it won't be too long before all of this is bottomed out so the cause and solution can be made known. And we can move on...preferably vtec'ing all the way!
I appreciate there are many on here who, like me, are concerned about their beloved S but I do believe that I can trust Honda to sort this - after all, it's in the best interests of their customer and their brand.
Many thanks to Ian and S2KUK for picking this up and engaging Honda on behalf of the owners. I look forward to seeing the results of this interaction. However, the one thing I do think we do need to clarify (and make known to all those concerned) is the statutory rights of an owner in the event of a manufacturer fault - this protection should (hopefully) provide some comfort to those who, like me, are worried about their beloved S (cue LL or another s2ki legal fundi for info in this regard).
But given the current focus of this thread, thought I'd add the detail here too:
At the end of last year, Honda replaced Jenson's thrustwashers and did some work on the gearbox and clutch. This resolved the issues with my car and I've had a few months of happy vtec motoring.
However my car has developed yet another irritating noise (nothing like the old rattle, this sounds like metal grinding on metal & gets worse the hotter the car gets - at times it can sound like chirping birds!) Steve Dyer of HUK agreed it was time they saw Jenson first-hand to compare my car with a baseline S. Consequently I recently spent an afternoon with Steve & members of HUK's Technical Team.
I was struck by the distress of the Tech Team when we talked about all the trouble I've had with Jenson - they have a deep affinity for the S which was evident throughout the 3 hours I spent with them. The upshot is HUK agree there is an unusual noise which is neither gearbox nor clutch & they are going to investigate further. They collected Jenson this morning to run a series of tests and will pass those results to engineers in Japan for analysis. Fingers crossed: when I get Jenson back, all is resolved. Especially as I'm off on a 2,300 mile Eurohoon on 12 August!
But over & above sorting Jenson, the afternoon was an opportunity to speak firsthand with HUK to voice my frustration at their ongoing silence & to attempt to understand what is going on behind the scenes. I've had a rollercoaster ride of emotions with my car over the past 22 months. In just over 2 years of ownership, Jenson has spent more than 4 months in Honda workshops so you can appreciate my distress.
Anyway, I want this to be a reassuring post so enough on that front.
I was impressed at the behind the scenes analysis & investigation which is taking place across global Honda - yes, Japan are definitely involved - but HUK are leading this given the numbers we've seen locally. There is a lot of hard work going on to collate & analyse data regarding warranty claims, with particular emphasis on the rattle, thrustwashers & engine troubles.
I think it's important to point out that although we've all been concerned about the rattle/pinking/pinging/knocking noises on 08/09 S2000s (I've had engines from both years replaced) it's not yet clear whether this is a pre-cursor to engine trouble or a new characteristic S noise. This is what Honda are working hard to establish.
I understand that only a very small number of cars with the now-familiar "rattle" have presented with swarf in the sump. And it is thus only in these very small number of cases that any deeper engine issue is at present suspected - hence the difficulty in pinning down a root cause to date. But this research is ongoing (hence Jenson's latest trip without me) and I appreciate that until this research & analysis is complete, Honda will not be in a position to make a legal/public statement. That's a bitter pill for us ardent S2k owners & enthusiasts to swallow but is a commercial fact. But for the first time in 2 years, I feel Honda have indeed been listening; they have acknowledged my concerns and I feel reassured at their professionalism.
As things stand Honda are also not in a position to brief the dealer network - given that the analysis has yet to yield definitive results. I argued against this but understand their position. However, Steve assures me that the HUK Customer Service Team has been briefed to ensure a consistent message is issued to dealers in response to their enquiries on behalf of S2k owners with rattling cars.
I should like to thank Steve & his team for their time & for their continued (albeit discrete) efforts on our behalf. Hopefully it won't be too long before all of this is bottomed out so the cause and solution can be made known. And we can move on...preferably vtec'ing all the way!
I appreciate there are many on here who, like me, are concerned about their beloved S but I do believe that I can trust Honda to sort this - after all, it's in the best interests of their customer and their brand.
Many thanks to Ian and S2KUK for picking this up and engaging Honda on behalf of the owners. I look forward to seeing the results of this interaction. However, the one thing I do think we do need to clarify (and make known to all those concerned) is the statutory rights of an owner in the event of a manufacturer fault - this protection should (hopefully) provide some comfort to those who, like me, are worried about their beloved S (cue LL or another s2ki legal fundi for info in this regard).
07-30-2011, 12:13 PM
#255
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Thanks Bokkie for taking the time to provide this detailed update. Much appreciated 
As another owner experiencing engine issues with my car the information you have been able to provide raises a few questions in respect of which clarification would be very helpful:
Beyond collating data re. warranty claims, what work is going on in terms of physically inspecting the engines that have had problems, be that a noise, crankshaft end float, worn & scored thrust washers, other component failure or total engine failure?
Can Honda offer some clarification as to:
• whether physical examinations of faulty engines have been undertaken
• how long physical examinations have been taking place
• whether this is this being undertaken by engineers in Japan or the UK and
• how long the process is likely to take before a conclusion is reached
The continued reference to “characteristic” noise worries me greatly. The noise is not a precursor to engine trouble, it IS engine trouble. It sounds terrible. So far as I am aware, there has been no component specification change that might create any “new characteristic noise” and I simply cannot believe that Honda’s world leading engineers would be content designing and manufacturing an engine that “characteristically” rattles this way.
This comment worries me greatly too. There is now a growing number of cars with no swarf in the sump but presenting with a rattle, with crankshaft end float beyond manufacturing tolerance & at the limit of service tolerance and with scored and worn thrust washers - after mileages as low as 2,500 miles in some cases.
Combined with the “characteristic noise” comment this suggests that HUK might not consider the rattle itself to be symptomatic of an engine fault when something IS clearly wrong and ALL the new symptoms being experienced with these later cars should be considered together in arriving at a diagnosis.
Do we know yet what that consistent message is?
I agree. Fingers crossed that Honda will get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible.
As another owner experiencing engine issues with my car the information you have been able to provide raises a few questions in respect of which clarification would be very helpful:
Can Honda offer some clarification as to:
• whether physical examinations of faulty engines have been undertaken
• how long physical examinations have been taking place
• whether this is this being undertaken by engineers in Japan or the UK and
• how long the process is likely to take before a conclusion is reached
I think it's important to point out that although we've all been concerned about the rattle/pinking/pinging/knocking noises.....it's not yet clear whether this is a pre-cursor to engine trouble or a new characteristic S noise. This is what Honda are working hard to establish.
I understand that only a very small number of cars with the now-familiar "rattle" have presented with swarf in the sump. And it is thus only in these very small number of cases that any deeper engine issue is at present suspected
Combined with the “characteristic noise” comment this suggests that HUK might not consider the rattle itself to be symptomatic of an engine fault when something IS clearly wrong and ALL the new symptoms being experienced with these later cars should be considered together in arriving at a diagnosis.
As things stand Honda are also not in a position to brief the dealer network - However, Steve assures me that the HUK Customer Service Team has been briefed to ensure a consistent message is issued to dealers in response to their enquiries on behalf of S2k owners with rattling cars.
Hopefully it won't be too long before all of this is bottomed out so the cause and solution can be made known. And we can move on...preferably vtec'ing all the way!
07-31-2011, 03:30 AM
#256
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Hi Gary 
I’m sorry that all my post seems to have done is to raise a load more questions for you. My intention was reassurance and to make known the good work that is going on behind the scenes at Honda. HUK are the old duck analogy: All looks calm on the surface but the duck is pedalling furiously underneath.
I can’t provide answers to all of your questions I’m afraid as I’m not privy to the data HUK hold or all of their activities. And my expectation would be that Honda would not make this information public until such time as a cause and solution has been found – or perhaps not even then. But I would suspect that they have a lot more hands-on involvement than they did 22 months ago when my first engine failed and all this kicked off! I do agree with you that this rattle is not a characteristic noise...and suspect that Honda don’t either.
As far as the consistent message goes, I was told that any reported “death rattle” engine is measured for tolerance: Inside – nfa, outside – new thrustwashers.
What strikes me is the progression on this – I think it is evidence of greater involvement on Honda’s part. The initial rattle was repaired by replacement of a short engine – a blanket solution if you will. Evidently this didn’t work in all cases. This has been followed by replacement of thrust washers which I suspect may not have had as successful an outcome as Honda would have wished. And now detailed root cause analysis is underway, hence the testing on my and a baseline car.
I’m now pacing the floor until I get Jenson back – deadline for delivery is 11 August as I go on holiday on the 12th. I have no doubt HUK will be very busy in the lead-up to this as they carry out all their tests and I for one wish them well and sincerely hope that this activity yields the results we all need.
Hang on in there mate!
I’m sorry that all my post seems to have done is to raise a load more questions for you. My intention was reassurance and to make known the good work that is going on behind the scenes at Honda. HUK are the old duck analogy: All looks calm on the surface but the duck is pedalling furiously underneath.
I can’t provide answers to all of your questions I’m afraid as I’m not privy to the data HUK hold or all of their activities. And my expectation would be that Honda would not make this information public until such time as a cause and solution has been found – or perhaps not even then. But I would suspect that they have a lot more hands-on involvement than they did 22 months ago when my first engine failed and all this kicked off! I do agree with you that this rattle is not a characteristic noise...and suspect that Honda don’t either.
As far as the consistent message goes, I was told that any reported “death rattle” engine is measured for tolerance: Inside – nfa, outside – new thrustwashers.
What strikes me is the progression on this – I think it is evidence of greater involvement on Honda’s part. The initial rattle was repaired by replacement of a short engine – a blanket solution if you will. Evidently this didn’t work in all cases. This has been followed by replacement of thrust washers which I suspect may not have had as successful an outcome as Honda would have wished. And now detailed root cause analysis is underway, hence the testing on my and a baseline car.
I’m now pacing the floor until I get Jenson back – deadline for delivery is 11 August as I go on holiday on the 12th. I have no doubt HUK will be very busy in the lead-up to this as they carry out all their tests and I for one wish them well and sincerely hope that this activity yields the results we all need.
Hang on in there mate!
07-31-2011, 06:31 AM
#258
You're a remarkably calm and sane person at this time Bokkie, we're all pacing the floor and chewing fingernails with you , it's gonna be along fortnight.
, it's gonna be along fortnight.
