Honda UK S2000 Alignment Bulletin
02-12-2002, 04:08 AM
#34
Originally posted by stevenleith
Mmmm.......now there's an idea Ian........u still in the new shape granny wagon then??!!......
Mmmm.......now there's an idea Ian........u still in the new shape granny wagon then??!!......
It's not an S2000, or even a CTR, but it is fine. The positive spin I am putting on all this is that I am not racking up miles on the S2000. I'm sure it will be grateful for the rest
02-12-2002, 01:16 PM
#35
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Originally posted by ianl
The S2000 has highly adjustable suspension - it is the castor angle (not adjustable on the vast majority of cars) which is causing them grief. They are a little hacked off with Honda UK - they have done something positive about customer feedback re. 'snappy' handling - they spent 4 days at MIRA with 3 S2000's and experimented with different suspension set-ups - however, they have not fully briefed their service depts. on how to do this work.
The S2000 has highly adjustable suspension - it is the castor angle (not adjustable on the vast majority of cars) which is causing them grief. They are a little hacked off with Honda UK - they have done something positive about customer feedback re. 'snappy' handling - they spent 4 days at MIRA with 3 S2000's and experimented with different suspension set-ups - however, they have not fully briefed their service depts. on how to do this work.
WARNING It would appear that adjusting the tracking (by changing the steering tie-rods) will change the rest of the alignment. Don't let an ordinary tyre center anywhere near the tracking!
To set the caster, they have to take the alignment measurements and measure the angle of the cams. The suspension caster and camber angles are derived by plotting the cam angles against a graph. Then there are some calculations for caster and camber angles to calculate the desired angles from the measured, derived and required values. The required values are then plotted against the graph to derived the desired angle of the cams. Then, it's just a case of adjusting the cams and setting the toe-in in the normal way (adjusting the steering arm tie-rod). Once it's done, all of the wheel measurements have to be taken again, and the whole process repeated until it is right.
If your dealer has not been trained by Honda how to use the graphs, it is unlikely that they will get the camber right. The caster is a simple matter of getting the bottom of the wheel the correct distance from the car. The caster requires the correct twist of the wishbone, while keeping the distance correct. I hope that your dealer have had their equipment calibrated and they get your car sorted soon.
02-12-2002, 01:22 PM
#36
Originally posted by S2000RJ
I can understand why it's causing them grief. The adjustment is done by turning cams on the suspension attachments. The adjustments are carried out by adjusting the front and rear attachment points of the bottom wishbone and the tie-rod length. The camber is changed by the front, camber by the rear and toe with the tie-rod. Basically, pushing the wishbone in/out changes camber, twisting it changes caster. As you can see, changing one upsets all the other measurements.
WARNING It would appear that adjusting the tracking (by changing the steering tie-rods) will change the rest of the alignment. Don't let an ordinary tyre center anywhere near the tracking!
To set the caster, they have to take the alignment measurements and measure the angle of the cams. The suspension caster and camber angles are derived by plotting the cam angles against a graph. Then there are some calculations for caster and camber angles to calculate the desired angles from the measured, derived and required values. The required values are then plotted against the graph to derived the desired angle of the cams. Then, it's just a case of adjusting the cams and setting the toe-in in the normal way (adjusting the steering arm tie-rod). Once it's done, all of the wheel measurements have to be taken again, and the whole process repeated until it is right.
If your dealer has not been trained by Honda how to use the graphs, it is unlikely that they will get the camber right. The caster is a simple matter of getting the bottom of the wheel the correct distance from the car. The caster requires the correct twist of the wishbone, while keeping the distance correct. I hope that your dealer have had their equipment calibrated and they get your car sorted soon.
I can understand why it's causing them grief. The adjustment is done by turning cams on the suspension attachments. The adjustments are carried out by adjusting the front and rear attachment points of the bottom wishbone and the tie-rod length. The camber is changed by the front, camber by the rear and toe with the tie-rod. Basically, pushing the wishbone in/out changes camber, twisting it changes caster. As you can see, changing one upsets all the other measurements.
WARNING It would appear that adjusting the tracking (by changing the steering tie-rods) will change the rest of the alignment. Don't let an ordinary tyre center anywhere near the tracking!
To set the caster, they have to take the alignment measurements and measure the angle of the cams. The suspension caster and camber angles are derived by plotting the cam angles against a graph. Then there are some calculations for caster and camber angles to calculate the desired angles from the measured, derived and required values. The required values are then plotted against the graph to derived the desired angle of the cams. Then, it's just a case of adjusting the cams and setting the toe-in in the normal way (adjusting the steering arm tie-rod). Once it's done, all of the wheel measurements have to be taken again, and the whole process repeated until it is right.
If your dealer has not been trained by Honda how to use the graphs, it is unlikely that they will get the camber right. The caster is a simple matter of getting the bottom of the wheel the correct distance from the car. The caster requires the correct twist of the wishbone, while keeping the distance correct. I hope that your dealer have had their equipment calibrated and they get your car sorted soon.
How come you know so much about this stuff?
02-12-2002, 01:23 PM
#37
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Originally posted by S2000RJ
I'm interested in having the alignment, but concerned about how much the tire wear affects alignment. I've just had my wheels replaced under warranty. The fronts had about 8,000 miles on them, so I had them switched to the oposite sides. Note: you cannot rotate the wheels/tyres, I had them switched before they were mounted to the rims. Since I've done this, I've found the car far more responsive to steering inputs. It was an interesting shock when I first drove out of the dealer
I'm interested in having the alignment, but concerned about how much the tire wear affects alignment. I've just had my wheels replaced under warranty. The fronts had about 8,000 miles on them, so I had them switched to the oposite sides. Note: you cannot rotate the wheels/tyres, I had them switched before they were mounted to the rims. Since I've done this, I've found the car far more responsive to steering inputs. It was an interesting shock when I first drove out of the dealer
Either my tyre preasure guage is wrong, or it came back from the dealer with 28.5psi all round
02-12-2002, 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Ross
My dealer doesn't have the equipment to do the work, so how do we trust anyone else????
My dealer doesn't have the equipment to do the work, so how do we trust anyone else????