Failed Spark plug :(
07-05-2008, 09:32 AM
#11
Member
I've personally seen too many issues with Denso plugs for me to ever use them. NGK rarely seem to have any issues... so I use theirs.
Just my view.
Just my view.
07-05-2008, 09:44 AM
#12
Registered User
Originally Posted by MB,Jul 5 2008, 05:32 PM
I've personally seen too many issues with Denso plugs for me to ever use them. NGK rarely seem to have any issues... so I use theirs.
Just my view.
Just my view.
Since I can get the Laser platinum ones for
07-05-2008, 09:45 AM
#13
Registered User
There are several reasons I believe them:
1. Toyota and Denso are extremely close companies and hence we have fairly open disclosure. If they even suspect they have a process problem I'll get a call from them asking if they can come up to check our stock. It's happened twice and in neither case have actually affected parts reached me.
2. It's not a Toyota plug so there's no reason for them to lie to me
3. As part of the report they passed me some garage style posters showing exactly the same phenomenon including the descriptions of the cause (i.e. picture of almost exactly P&C's plug and the root cause, i.e. overtorque). I don't believe they'd produce a highly professional A1 glossy poster just to lie to me about the condition when they could far more easily have just refused to investigate since it wasn't work based
4. We've built something like 1,000,000 engines in my time looking after Denso products. That's 4,000,000 spark plugs and I know of only 1 concern in all that time which I won't tell you about but is massively easy to detect and you wouldn't have fitted in an engine
5. One of my other hats at Toyota is Warranty guru. Now granted it's a different engine however if it's a chronic problem you'd expect to see it since the plugs hve come through the same design group. We don't.
Denso have given me no reason to doubt the report and plenty of reasons to believe it.
1. Toyota and Denso are extremely close companies and hence we have fairly open disclosure. If they even suspect they have a process problem I'll get a call from them asking if they can come up to check our stock. It's happened twice and in neither case have actually affected parts reached me.
2. It's not a Toyota plug so there's no reason for them to lie to me
3. As part of the report they passed me some garage style posters showing exactly the same phenomenon including the descriptions of the cause (i.e. picture of almost exactly P&C's plug and the root cause, i.e. overtorque). I don't believe they'd produce a highly professional A1 glossy poster just to lie to me about the condition when they could far more easily have just refused to investigate since it wasn't work based
4. We've built something like 1,000,000 engines in my time looking after Denso products. That's 4,000,000 spark plugs and I know of only 1 concern in all that time which I won't tell you about but is massively easy to detect and you wouldn't have fitted in an engine
5. One of my other hats at Toyota is Warranty guru. Now granted it's a different engine however if it's a chronic problem you'd expect to see it since the plugs hve come through the same design group. We don't.
Denso have given me no reason to doubt the report and plenty of reasons to believe it.
07-05-2008, 10:02 AM
#14
Registered User
Originally Posted by fluffyninja,Jul 5 2008, 05:45 PM
There are several reasons I believe them:
1. Toyota and Denso are extremely close companies and hence we have fairly open disclosure. If they even suspect they have a process problem I'll get a call from them asking if they can come up to check our stock. It's happened twice and in neither case have actually affected parts reached me.
2. It's not a Toyota plug so there's no reason for them to lie to me
3. As part of the report they passed me some garage style posters showing exactly the same phenomenon including the descriptions of the cause (i.e. picture of almost exactly P&C's plug and the root cause, i.e. overtorque). I don't believe they'd produce a highly professional A1 glossy poster just to lie to me about the condition when they could far more easily have just refused to investigate since it wasn't work based
4. We've built something like 1,000,000 engines in my time looking after Denso products. That's 4,000,000 spark plugs and I know of only 1 concern in all that time which I won't tell you about but is massively easy to detect and you wouldn't have fitted in an engine
5. One of my other hats at Toyota is Warranty guru. Now granted it's a different engine however if it's a chronic problem you'd expect to see it since the plugs hve come through the same design group. We don't.
Denso have given me no reason to doubt the report and plenty of reasons to believe it.
1. Toyota and Denso are extremely close companies and hence we have fairly open disclosure. If they even suspect they have a process problem I'll get a call from them asking if they can come up to check our stock. It's happened twice and in neither case have actually affected parts reached me.
2. It's not a Toyota plug so there's no reason for them to lie to me
3. As part of the report they passed me some garage style posters showing exactly the same phenomenon including the descriptions of the cause (i.e. picture of almost exactly P&C's plug and the root cause, i.e. overtorque). I don't believe they'd produce a highly professional A1 glossy poster just to lie to me about the condition when they could far more easily have just refused to investigate since it wasn't work based
4. We've built something like 1,000,000 engines in my time looking after Denso products. That's 4,000,000 spark plugs and I know of only 1 concern in all that time which I won't tell you about but is massively easy to detect and you wouldn't have fitted in an engine
5. One of my other hats at Toyota is Warranty guru. Now granted it's a different engine however if it's a chronic problem you'd expect to see it since the plugs hve come through the same design group. We don't.
Denso have given me no reason to doubt the report and plenty of reasons to believe it.
I have never seen a sparkplug failure directly, but imagine that a few duffers slip through the net.
Sure, Mugen could have overtorqued. Or he could have gotten one that slipped through the net.
I'm not put off by Denso, but when you can get the reccommended items for the same price (if not chaper) then why go anywhere else?
07-05-2008, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypersonik,Jul 5 2008, 07:02 PM
Fair enough
I have never seen a sparkplug failure directly, but imagine that a few duffers slip through the net.
Sure, Mugen could have overtorqued. Or he could have gotten one that slipped through the net.
I'm not put off by Denso, but when you can get the reccommended items for the same price (if not chaper) then why go anywhere else?
I have never seen a sparkplug failure directly, but imagine that a few duffers slip through the net.
Sure, Mugen could have overtorqued. Or he could have gotten one that slipped through the net.
I'm not put off by Denso, but when you can get the reccommended items for the same price (if not chaper) then why go anywhere else?
07-05-2008, 10:12 AM
#16
Registered User
Originally Posted by Hypersonik,Jul 5 2008, 06:02 PM
I'm not put off by Denso, but when you can get the reccommended items for the same price (if not chaper) then why go anywhere else?
This is based on putting 2 and 2 together and I may well be getting 739 but......
One of the early recalls on S2000's was a plug replacement and an increase in tightening torque IIRC. It's possible that if the body of the Denso plug isn't as strong as other brands.
If the torque recommendation from Honda is towards the upper end of what the Denso plug is designed for then when people "give it an extra tweak just to be sure" it actually causes a problem.
This is based on the feedback I got from Denso saying the torque was too high for the plug, what I remember from some of the info on the early S2000 recalls and an assumption that the problem has a higher failure rate than other marques. This is my guess only and please don't take this bit as gospel
07-05-2008, 10:38 AM
#19
Registered User
Useful info
Although based on that and LTB's post above I suspect my guess might be wrong unless it's the difference between tightening torque and inspection torque
Although based on that and LTB's post above I suspect my guess might be wrong unless it's the difference between tightening torque and inspection torque
07-05-2008, 04:04 PM
#20
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I guess as I don't have a torque wrench I do up my spark plugs fairly tight maybe a tad too tight but why is it I managed to run them for a few hundred miles before failure starts ?
When I took my car in to honda in for diagnostics the technician noticed I had changed my plugs so I'm not certain if it was my doing or the honda technician had the plugs out at any stage and over tightened them when he put them back in
I guess I will have to by one replacement plug and then stick the set into my EK9
When I took my car in to honda in for diagnostics the technician noticed I had changed my plugs so I'm not certain if it was my doing or the honda technician had the plugs out at any stage and over tightened them when he put them back in
I guess I will have to by one replacement plug and then stick the set into my EK9