Engine Lifespan MY99 - MY02
07-31-2011, 02:12 AM
#21
The replacement engine cost is the killer. If they were £500, it'd make the economics very different. As it is, if mine were to fail tomorrow the car wouldn't be worth saving.
Mine was a camchain failure BTW, which is pretty rare. It might still be going strong at 125K if it wasn't for that.
Mine was a camchain failure BTW, which is pretty rare. It might still be going strong at 125K if it wasn't for that.
07-31-2011, 02:59 AM
#22
Registered User
When mine fails, I think I'd still look to replace the engine. Mine has rust spots appearing and would benefit from a respray and probably a few weeks of strip down and treatment but with 120k miles on and no dealer or garage history past 50k miles (all home serviced from that point) it's probably only worth about 2k as it stands. With a popped engine it'd be worth less.
To bring it back to mint condition now will probably cost me the best part of £800 but even then it'd be worth £3k tops.
It makes no economic sense to spend any money on mine and if the motor went tomorrow, the only sensible option would be to break the rest of it on eBay.
Truth be told though, I didn't buy it cos it made economic sense and I'll spend the money I need to spend to keep it on the road. I know it'll end up being like the brush that's had 3 new heads and 4 new handles but half the fun I get is from driving it and the other half the fun I get is from keeping it on the road.
At some point next year it'll get a respray, by then it'll be knocking on the 160k-170k Mark and yes, I'll probably be on a new engine by then but I'm still enjoying owning it.
It'll never be worth to someone else what it's worth to me so there's no point looking at the economics of it...
I'm lucky though in that I enjoy the maintenance part of it and am handy enough with the spanners to do what I need to do. I appreciate that other people just want to buy one and drive it but an S2000 is one of those cars where, to an extent, you have to park the sensible part of your brain when you buy one.
Other options to consider if buying a high mileage one with a decent history is an AA type warranty. The k series Elise owners used this to great effect to insure against big head gasket bills...I don't see why the same principle couldn't be used here.
To bring it back to mint condition now will probably cost me the best part of £800 but even then it'd be worth £3k tops.
It makes no economic sense to spend any money on mine and if the motor went tomorrow, the only sensible option would be to break the rest of it on eBay.
Truth be told though, I didn't buy it cos it made economic sense and I'll spend the money I need to spend to keep it on the road. I know it'll end up being like the brush that's had 3 new heads and 4 new handles but half the fun I get is from driving it and the other half the fun I get is from keeping it on the road.
At some point next year it'll get a respray, by then it'll be knocking on the 160k-170k Mark and yes, I'll probably be on a new engine by then but I'm still enjoying owning it.
It'll never be worth to someone else what it's worth to me so there's no point looking at the economics of it...
I'm lucky though in that I enjoy the maintenance part of it and am handy enough with the spanners to do what I need to do. I appreciate that other people just want to buy one and drive it but an S2000 is one of those cars where, to an extent, you have to park the sensible part of your brain when you buy one.
Other options to consider if buying a high mileage one with a decent history is an AA type warranty. The k series Elise owners used this to great effect to insure against big head gasket bills...I don't see why the same principle couldn't be used here.
07-31-2011, 07:42 AM
#23
The main and rod bearings wear more quickly than the typical Honda engine. Sadly very, very, very few people even consider replacing the bearings... and you get the situation where there are plenty of tales of spun mains and rods out the side of the block from rod bearing failure.
The F20C also shares the same trait of some of the older Honda engines to wear the bores quiet oval. So you do start to lose power.
It pains me seeing this perception of the F20C as a consumable - "buy another" - when most would probably last fine if the bearings where changed at a suitable time... by the time the bore wear is bad enough to warrant a rebore, it's going to be far more economic to replace rather than rebuild to appropriate tolerances.
You can change the bearings without even taking the engine out... hence the shame of too many engines expired too soon needlessly.
Oil selection and temperature are big factors too. Even with the best oil, I wouldn't want to see bulk oil temperatures above 120C with the F20C. That's a handful of laps on track if you're driving hard... a full 20 minute session if you're keeping the revs up and an oil cooler with shroud is advisable.
-Brian.
The F20C also shares the same trait of some of the older Honda engines to wear the bores quiet oval. So you do start to lose power.
It pains me seeing this perception of the F20C as a consumable - "buy another" - when most would probably last fine if the bearings where changed at a suitable time... by the time the bore wear is bad enough to warrant a rebore, it's going to be far more economic to replace rather than rebuild to appropriate tolerances.
You can change the bearings without even taking the engine out... hence the shame of too many engines expired too soon needlessly.
Oil selection and temperature are big factors too. Even with the best oil, I wouldn't want to see bulk oil temperatures above 120C with the F20C. That's a handful of laps on track if you're driving hard... a full 20 minute session if you're keeping the revs up and an oil cooler with shroud is advisable.
-Brian.
07-31-2011, 01:13 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Ultra_Nexus' timestamp='1312075318' post='20831781
I'd say 125k miles is about the expected life of an F20C.
with about a decade's worth of experience I'd say the same
but I would add that I wouldn't touch a car with over 75K miles on it
it won't be long before the mileage is at 90K and I regard 90K-125k as the death zone
a decent replacement engine (fitted) will cost between £3000 and £5000
so in my book, a 2000my car with 100K on the clock isn't worth more than £2000
Think i'll be looking 51 plate and above
07-31-2011, 05:05 PM
#26
Registered User
The main and rod bearings wear more quickly than the typical Honda engine. Sadly very, very, very few people even consider replacing the bearings... and you get the situation where there are plenty of tales of spun mains and rods out the side of the block from rod bearing failure.
The F20C also shares the same trait of some of the older Honda engines to wear the bores quiet oval. So you do start to lose power.
It pains me seeing this perception of the F20C as a consumable - "buy another" - when most would probably last fine if the bearings where changed at a suitable time... by the time the bore wear is bad enough to warrant a rebore, it's going to be far more economic to replace rather than rebuild to appropriate tolerances.
You can change the bearings without even taking the engine out... hence the shame of too many engines expired too soon needlessly.
Oil selection and temperature are big factors too. Even with the best oil, I wouldn't want to see bulk oil temperatures above 120C with the F20C. That's a handful of laps on track if you're driving hard... a full 20 minute session if you're keeping the revs up and an oil cooler with shroud is advisable.
-Brian.
The F20C also shares the same trait of some of the older Honda engines to wear the bores quiet oval. So you do start to lose power.
It pains me seeing this perception of the F20C as a consumable - "buy another" - when most would probably last fine if the bearings where changed at a suitable time... by the time the bore wear is bad enough to warrant a rebore, it's going to be far more economic to replace rather than rebuild to appropriate tolerances.
You can change the bearings without even taking the engine out... hence the shame of too many engines expired too soon needlessly.
Oil selection and temperature are big factors too. Even with the best oil, I wouldn't want to see bulk oil temperatures above 120C with the F20C. That's a handful of laps on track if you're driving hard... a full 20 minute session if you're keeping the revs up and an oil cooler with shroud is advisable.
-Brian.
Interesting info, thanks for taking the time to post. How difficult is it to change the main and rod bearings and what sort of work does it entail? By rod I'm guessing you mean con rods but what do you mean by the main ones?
I'd be interested in doing this if it is likely to prolong the life of the engine. Mine has done just over 82k now and I do tend to drive the car pretty hard once warm. Its a shame they never fitted the car with an oil temperature guage considering how critical oil temperature is for these engines.
08-01-2011, 04:00 AM
#27
08-01-2011, 04:03 AM
#28
-Brian.
08-01-2011, 04:05 AM
#29
Registered User
Originally Posted by Floppy' timestamp='1312160753' post='20833751
Interesting info, thanks for taking the time to post. How difficult is it to change the main and rod bearings and what sort of work does it entail? By rod I'm guessing you mean con rods but what do you mean by the main ones?
-Brian.
08-01-2011, 04:08 AM
#30
What's the lifespan of the bores .... would you hit the 200k mile mark assuming no silly wear?