Constructive answers to road safety and speeding
04-20-2005, 07:03 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My comment on forums glorifying road racing and the like was a general comment - certainly not aimed at this site in particular infact have seen people flamed for their racing expoits. I just express dismay at people who wonder why there are loads of Scameras about when they admit to racing other exotica at highly illegal speeds - its like 'duh! Don't do the crime etc.
I also have noticed ageneral responsibility of most users - the odd blast of VTEC is reasonable - we all like to put our foot down where road conditions allow.
As far as responsibiity goes, I still follow the "kids are soft amd stupid, we drive hard cars and are adults" - blame is very different to responsibility.....
I also have noticed ageneral responsibility of most users - the odd blast of VTEC is reasonable - we all like to put our foot down where road conditions allow.
As far as responsibiity goes, I still follow the "kids are soft amd stupid, we drive hard cars and are adults" - blame is very different to responsibility.....
04-20-2005, 08:16 AM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lothians
Posts: 10,138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How good we (on this site) are good at driving is entirely subjective.
Fair enough, a lot of people (me included) have been on some sort of advanced driving course, but most of these seem to be aimed at performance cars - not necessarily roadcraft.
Few of us (me included) adhere to speed limits all the time, and would therefore fail a proper RoSPA or IAM test.
We justify our excess as it being safe for the road conditions at the time, but whether that is still "good driving" is highly subjective.
Fair enough, a lot of people (me included) have been on some sort of advanced driving course, but most of these seem to be aimed at performance cars - not necessarily roadcraft.
Few of us (me included) adhere to speed limits all the time, and would therefore fail a proper RoSPA or IAM test.
We justify our excess as it being safe for the road conditions at the time, but whether that is still "good driving" is highly subjective.
04-20-2005, 09:01 AM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brissssol
Posts: 1,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's a good point, 1st Lotus style training is completely different to IAM style training.
The first will help you if you get into trouble.
The second will stop you putting the car there in the first place.
Best thing I ever did was the IAM test.
The first will help you if you get into trouble.
The second will stop you putting the car there in the first place.
Best thing I ever did was the IAM test.
04-20-2005, 09:50 AM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11,493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think increased police presence on the roads for 3 reasons: 1) they can judge road conditions when deciding when to prosecute somebody, and 2), it would deter the idiots who drive badly on purpose (risky o/t's, cutting you up etc.), 3) they could prosecute for things cameras don't spot - tailgating, bad driving etc.
Larger clearer road signs would help reduce the bad driving caused by lost drivers, as would reducing the amount of "clutter" roadsigns.
I also find that in the rain, white road markings disappear, making roundabouts and junctions difficult to negotiate sometimes - something making this not happen would be good.
In NZ they have speed signs on almost every bend in the road with recommended speeds. I know I know nanny state, but might help prevent drivers getting caught out by strange corners or unknown roads.
I also thing the driving test should be staggered. Just a rough idea (not thought out really) for example: 6 months/1 year after passing your initial test (where you arelimited to not using the motorway, or perhaps restricted to lanes 1/2 of the motorway) you have to take further tuition in defensive driving and motorway driving, and take another test to demonstrate your driving skills. Re-tests every x years too.
Larger clearer road signs would help reduce the bad driving caused by lost drivers, as would reducing the amount of "clutter" roadsigns.
I also find that in the rain, white road markings disappear, making roundabouts and junctions difficult to negotiate sometimes - something making this not happen would be good.
In NZ they have speed signs on almost every bend in the road with recommended speeds. I know I know nanny state, but might help prevent drivers getting caught out by strange corners or unknown roads.
I also thing the driving test should be staggered. Just a rough idea (not thought out really) for example: 6 months/1 year after passing your initial test (where you arelimited to not using the motorway, or perhaps restricted to lanes 1/2 of the motorway) you have to take further tuition in defensive driving and motorway driving, and take another test to demonstrate your driving skills. Re-tests every x years too.
04-20-2005, 09:57 AM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 7,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I make mistakes on roads and sometimes on purpose. I might have gone to the exit of the motorway too late hoping to get past all the idiots who had held me up in the outside lane of a motorway only to pull left before a junction. Then on other occasions I know that I am a good driver, spotting hazards 3-6 cars ahead which even the driver in the first car hasn't. I surprise myself when this happens but somehow I am always looking ahead and calculating. I think it has a lot to do with driving in India where one would be dead without awareness. On the same hand when talking to my wife sometimes I get distracted and have made mistakes. Therefore the only time I am 100% confident in my abilities is when I am focused 100% behind the wheel. This might sound therefore that I will never make a mistake which is wrong. My last accident and when I wrote off my car and 4 others was when I was concentrating but made the mistake of driving too quickly for the conditions and temperature. Felt like a right idiot afterwards too.
Solution from my perspective is to make the driving test a lot harder. It is not a right to get one but one that needs to be earned. Retesting everyone every 3 - 4 years is essential. As everyone has said before me, more education. When I have seen major accidents or programs on TV when someone dies it brings home reality. When a police officer has to visit the partner and tell them that their husband/wife is dead, that to me is reality.
I speed and on country lanes too. Now my instinct is to say that these are fun roads and if they are dry then don't stop me having my fun but it is these roads which are the most dangerous of all. Side roads, cars and tractors exiting/joining on blind bends, other people overtaking when you don't expect them to etc. The more I drive these roads the more chance I have of being involved in an accident but it is one risk I take and is a calculated one.
Education
Information
Reality photos/videos
Police
Driver Training
Testing
Review Speed limits
I do like to think that I am a good driver but I do make mistakes but the number of totally useless drivers that I see everyday makes me wish to own a gun. I accept however that they can't change and no one will make them change.
Solution from my perspective is to make the driving test a lot harder. It is not a right to get one but one that needs to be earned. Retesting everyone every 3 - 4 years is essential. As everyone has said before me, more education. When I have seen major accidents or programs on TV when someone dies it brings home reality. When a police officer has to visit the partner and tell them that their husband/wife is dead, that to me is reality.
I speed and on country lanes too. Now my instinct is to say that these are fun roads and if they are dry then don't stop me having my fun but it is these roads which are the most dangerous of all. Side roads, cars and tractors exiting/joining on blind bends, other people overtaking when you don't expect them to etc. The more I drive these roads the more chance I have of being involved in an accident but it is one risk I take and is a calculated one.
Education
Information
Reality photos/videos
Police
Driver Training
Testing
Review Speed limits
I do like to think that I am a good driver but I do make mistakes but the number of totally useless drivers that I see everyday makes me wish to own a gun. I accept however that they can't change and no one will make them change.
04-20-2005, 10:03 AM
#37
Banned
allow undertaking/overtaking in whatever lane you like - subject to normal restrictions regarding DWDCAA etc
this would frighten all the dimwits and nervous drivers off the main roads and leave them free for people who want to get on with it
education might work - 30 years from now
I'm interested in tomorrow morning
this would frighten all the dimwits and nervous drivers off the main roads and leave them free for people who want to get on with it
education might work - 30 years from now
I'm interested in tomorrow morning
04-20-2005, 10:08 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South
Posts: 5,184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Fletch,Apr 20 2005, 11:51 AM
Ok Serious suggestion.
Bring back "Public information films". Remember those? with the likes of Peter Pervis? (sp)
There are PLENTY of "drivers" out there that actually don't know the rules of the road.
Keep left at all times; don't use fog lights in the rain but do use dipped headlights; mirror SIGNAL manoeuvre; proper use of roundabouts, "Only a fool breaks the two second rule" etc. etc.
And so on.
Bring back "Public information films". Remember those? with the likes of Peter Pervis? (sp)
There are PLENTY of "drivers" out there that actually don't know the rules of the road.
Keep left at all times; don't use fog lights in the rain but do use dipped headlights; mirror SIGNAL manoeuvre; proper use of roundabouts, "Only a fool breaks the two second rule" etc. etc.
And so on.
04-20-2005, 10:21 AM
#39
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 2,588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about:
having different speed limits for different times of day - suburban roads are safer/much less busy at 12 midnight than 5 in the afternoon - could invent a new road sign for that one
having different speed limits for different directions on the same section of road, ie 40 in one direction approaching a bend, 70 in the other because the bend is behind you
re-sit driving test every 5 years and on reaching certain ages
limiting younger drivers to the kind of car they can drive, smaller hp, no mods etc
just some of the ideas I put to our government last year when they were trying to introduce a national speed limit - none of which they've yet introduced BTW
having different speed limits for different times of day - suburban roads are safer/much less busy at 12 midnight than 5 in the afternoon - could invent a new road sign for that one
having different speed limits for different directions on the same section of road, ie 40 in one direction approaching a bend, 70 in the other because the bend is behind you
re-sit driving test every 5 years and on reaching certain ages
limiting younger drivers to the kind of car they can drive, smaller hp, no mods etc
just some of the ideas I put to our government last year when they were trying to introduce a national speed limit - none of which they've yet introduced BTW
04-20-2005, 10:24 AM
#40
The problem as I see it is that there is, and always will be (whatever training is introduced) a huge disparity in the ability, judgement/perceptiveness, and importantly, reactions of the driving population.
More stringent testing might help, although as someone who, in his early company car days, was sent on a BSM Accident Awareness course (due to his boy racer tendencies and consequent accident record) can testify, these things aren't the whole solution. Yes the course made me question some of my (what the instructor called) "combative driving techniques", but much of the advice, like "don't get three abreast on a motorway as you've nowhere to go if something goes wrong" was just plain rubbish. Try that one on the M25 (or indeed any motorway) in rush hour.
I agree with Fletch that more public information films in the Purvis (
) and Reginald Molehusband (he of the reversing film fame) mold, along with more signs on motorways teaching lane discipline, would be a good idea.
Bad driving is what causes accidents, and whilst speeding alone can sometimes be defined as "bad driving", it is most commonly only a multiplier in an accident situation. It is people's inability to judge road and traffic conditions, anticipate situations before they happen, that cause problems. I doubt whether those skills could be instilled in all the population. The fact is that whilst we enjoy our cars and, in most cases, are keen on our driving and strive to improve, there is a huge proportion of the population who regard driving as a chore to get them from A to B and who have absolutely no interest in doing it better and more safely. Sadly, I suspect it is this group who are responsible for most accidents.
Things I don't think would work would include allowing undertaking or asking people to take further tests (an excuse for the nanny state to go into overdrive, IMHO). Technology may help with vehicle proximity detectors, devices that keep you in your lane on motorways etc., but I suspect the users of forums like this will still be having this debate in 50 years time (when of course our cars will be powered by hydrogen cells, be capable of following magnetic strips sunk in the roads, and be driven using PS2 controllers ... ).
More stringent testing might help, although as someone who, in his early company car days, was sent on a BSM Accident Awareness course (due to his boy racer tendencies and consequent accident record) can testify, these things aren't the whole solution. Yes the course made me question some of my (what the instructor called) "combative driving techniques", but much of the advice, like "don't get three abreast on a motorway as you've nowhere to go if something goes wrong" was just plain rubbish. Try that one on the M25 (or indeed any motorway) in rush hour.
I agree with Fletch that more public information films in the Purvis (
) and Reginald Molehusband (he of the reversing film fame) mold, along with more signs on motorways teaching lane discipline, would be a good idea.Bad driving is what causes accidents, and whilst speeding alone can sometimes be defined as "bad driving", it is most commonly only a multiplier in an accident situation. It is people's inability to judge road and traffic conditions, anticipate situations before they happen, that cause problems. I doubt whether those skills could be instilled in all the population. The fact is that whilst we enjoy our cars and, in most cases, are keen on our driving and strive to improve, there is a huge proportion of the population who regard driving as a chore to get them from A to B and who have absolutely no interest in doing it better and more safely. Sadly, I suspect it is this group who are responsible for most accidents.
Things I don't think would work would include allowing undertaking or asking people to take further tests (an excuse for the nanny state to go into overdrive, IMHO). Technology may help with vehicle proximity detectors, devices that keep you in your lane on motorways etc., but I suspect the users of forums like this will still be having this debate in 50 years time (when of course our cars will be powered by hydrogen cells, be capable of following magnetic strips sunk in the roads, and be driven using PS2 controllers ...
).