euan

If every driver had to take an bi-annual/annual RoSPA or IAM advanced test you would probably cut the accident rate by around 80-90%.

Most accidents are caused by driver error - proper enforced training would make a huge difference.

(accidents would also be reduced by virtue of the fact that many drivers probably couldn't pass an advanced test and wouldn't even be allowed on the road )

chilled

Above are some really valid points, I'd kind of like to bring some of them together though.

Firstly think about the statement: speed kills. Yes it does. But if you think about it. It's rare (ie only if you are going excessively fast) that speed alone kills. Usually it just exacerbates (what does that mean? Shaun...) the situation. And to a large extent any single driving flaw won't cause an accident.

Tailgating alone usually won't cause an accident. it's not looking ahead as well as tailgating that causes the accident.

Speed plus bad conditions: think of all the spins we've heard of, almost all of which were the drivers fault. Even the "derv swerves", they should expect it. I'm guilty of not expecting it, but we should.

So basically education as everyone else is saying is the only way forward.

chilled

Especially on the motorway, you should be looking as far ahead as you can see. It's easy enough to do. give yourself plenty of time for manouvers. it's not hard to predict the traffic flow of all three lanes in front of you. Just watch for each vehicles speed in comparison to others. It's a pet hate of mine that people don't look ahead. or behind.

Bingo-a-go-go

Does anyone own up to being a bit of a crap driver - I've been on several forums now where no-one else can drive, except the people on that forum?

Is this because all forum members everywhere are budding Nigel Mansell's, or could we look at our own behaviour more to understand why we think everyone else is dangerous/can't drive properly?

Not slating anyone, just raising a point?

s2000please

Some of my observations as someone who does around 20k miles per year all over England and many motorway miles (thankfully not in the S).

Driver skill on Motorways is poor, there is a general misconception that there is a slow,slightly faster, and fast lane and the lane chosen is dependant on speed only.

People tend to lane hog, especially those who sit in the middle lane for miles and miles. This is dangerous and causes jams. Get enough of these idiots and effectively the motorway becomes a dual carriageway. It becomes difficult to get around these vehicles when you wish to get back into the inside lane. Moreover they become a rolling chicane when getting on the motorway.

People exit the motorway at the last moment and if they do actually indicate is is usually as they are crossing the white line, I was taught that you indicate at the third countdown marker. Sometimes drivers will at the last moment cross straight from the overtaking only lane (fast lane) and off.

People drive far too close to the car infront which results in crashes or the 'invisible incident' congestion. How many times do drivers hit the brakes because they see the driver in front has? Rather than an actual need to slow down.
Last time I checked driving too close and excessive braking was in the top 5 causes of motorway jams.

Little or no allowance is made for poor weather conditions. Alot of people assume their car will stop the same wet or dry. Or that it's safe to charge into fog.

Many people will overtake rather than slow down. They will pull infront of a fast approaching vehicle rather than hit the brakes/alter their speed.

Nobody ever gives way (it's not your right of way!) on the slip road up to the motorway irrespective of the consequences.

It amazes me that there is no compulsory motorway tuition and there are no safety campaigns related to motorway driving. There are legions of people driving the motorways of this country who haven't got a clue how they should be safely driving the motorways (other than what is perceived to be the norm) and the Government is doing sweet FA about it.

StuartL

This is the problem. 99.999% of people think that their driving is fine and that everyone else on the road is driving like a tw*t. They seem to think that changing the rules so that everyone else is unable to drive like a tw*t will solve the problem. Of course it won't change their own driving. Again I include myself and everyone reading this in this statement.

I'm all for education. I think the ideas about 'Think' campaigns, forced retests (IAM or whatever), education instead of punishment are all fantastic. I don't think that speed limits are the perfect answer but I do think that if they're realistic and strictly enforced (note the 'and') then they can help make a road safer. I'd love to see more police patrols on the road strictly enforcing more generic rules such as "Due care and attention" and "Dangerous driving". I'd like to think that if I attempted a careless, dangerous or stupid maneoveur that there would be a plod grabbing me by the ankles before the wheels stopped spinning, whether or not I was breaking a speed limit.

I agree that the media is partially at fault but the media isn't anywhere near as guilty as these kinds of discussions. We must all realise that the only way to make roads safer is to drive more safely ourselves and that is going to curtail the adrenaline rush that drivers of performance cars get on the public road. We must all (every S2000 driver, every lorry driver, every old lady) realise that the safety on the road must come at a cost to ourselves, not to other people.

sammyc

I was going to say that!!! Not fair! I want to be the one who quoted MarkB!

Colin Andrews

Bingo! Bingo ( had to work THAT one in)

The "we're OK, they're crap" attitude definitely contributes to complacency - we had an "Oh my god, I was an ar$e, what crap driving" thread on here that LOTS of people contributed to.

Driver training is the only answer that has no drawbacks (e.g. bigger signs on road - good for clarity but destroy night vision so you can't see the road on the corner they're warning you about) - and we (well of course I mean YOU) need to recognise our own failings before we go and get trained.

Police policing can help this a lot - cameras are seen as un-fair and the only lesson learned is to buy a detector

c_a_r_t_e_r

I totally agree with education being the key factor here.

Our UK driving test is just too easy to pass - with no compulsory follow-up tuition or testing at all! However many attempts it takes you to pass from age 17 onwards, you're set for life to be a crap driver! And even if you haven't got the co-ordination to pass using a manual - no worries! Just do it in an Automatic car and struggle through the test that way.

What we need is a scale system similar to the new bike licence regulations, but with 10 yearly "refresher" tests, and a mandatory re-test for the over 70s.

I really believe that there's no such thing as an accident - it's just an excuse for losing concentration or not driving appropriately for the conditions. This is not including mechanical failure of course, but then I think more people should also be educated to properly maintain and monitor their cars condition.

Tim.

Colin Andrews

Error of ways being pointed out by someone whose judgement we accept and trust.

An environment where that judgement can be developed, expanded, extended in safety.

Re-assessment as necessary.