brakes Int. Uprated Discs and Pads
04-22-2008, 12:28 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Survey S2000,Apr 22 2008, 09:24 AM
Chilled, i dont think most people will endore heat cycling on the way to work. Your recommendation maybe to good but dont forget you are on a track focused set up.
I'm also aware that I'm at the extreme end of the usage scale. The mintex combo will almost certainly be fine for road use.
However, if you're on road use, I found the OEM brakes to be perfect really.
04-22-2008, 12:33 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by chilled,Apr 22 2008, 12:13 AM
I'm sorry, but you're talking some right proper shit there. 
It's like comparing chalk and cheese. Disk size, car weight, engine performance, F/R brake bias, F/R disk and pad size ratio, FR, MR, FF or 4WD all affect the braking system.
In effect, because that setup worked on a Fiesta, you're in effect extrapolating that it would work on a Veyron or ANY other car that uses servo assisted disk brakes. Did the fiesta even have ****ing rear disk brakes? FFS!
My A048R's tyres are fantastic on my S2000's, but in the same conditions a caterham would struggle to get them up to temperature and they'd feel crap. Tyres, like brakes have optimal setups and operating temperature.
The s2000 equivalent fiesta setup MAY work, but that would be just luck. And besides, most standard setups work if you don't push the car hard. But just because a particular setup works on one car, it's not a definitive indicator of it working on any other car.
And brake ducts are a non-reversible modification. If requires cutting out parts of the car. Which may not suit everyone.
It's like comparing chalk and cheese. Disk size, car weight, engine performance, F/R brake bias, F/R disk and pad size ratio, FR, MR, FF or 4WD all affect the braking system.
In effect, because that setup worked on a Fiesta, you're in effect extrapolating that it would work on a Veyron or ANY other car that uses servo assisted disk brakes. Did the fiesta even have ****ing rear disk brakes? FFS!
My A048R's tyres are fantastic on my S2000's, but in the same conditions a caterham would struggle to get them up to temperature and they'd feel crap. Tyres, like brakes have optimal setups and operating temperature.
The s2000 equivalent fiesta setup MAY work, but that would be just luck. And besides, most standard setups work if you don't push the car hard. But just because a particular setup works on one car, it's not a definitive indicator of it working on any other car.
And brake ducts are a non-reversible modification. If requires cutting out parts of the car. Which may not suit everyone.
What it shows is that in my application the combanation of pad/disc worked well, therefore its well worth a punt.We all know thier not the same car
04-22-2008, 12:40 AM
#23
I cracked EBCs with Ferodos:
http://www.askp90.dsl.pipex.com/cracked2.jpg
I think somebody else may have cracked one with redstuffs, but I find that hard to believe as redstuffs didn't seem nearly as hard on the disks as Ferodos. If it was for road use and the odd trackday, I'd probably stick with redstuff and any old disks. If you're going to get more serious about the trackdays, you need to splash the cash.
But I've never had OEM pads.
http://www.askp90.dsl.pipex.com/cracked2.jpg
I think somebody else may have cracked one with redstuffs, but I find that hard to believe as redstuffs didn't seem nearly as hard on the disks as Ferodos. If it was for road use and the odd trackday, I'd probably stick with redstuff and any old disks. If you're going to get more serious about the trackdays, you need to splash the cash.
But I've never had OEM pads.
04-22-2008, 12:51 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by chilled,Apr 22 2008, 08:13 AM
I'm sorry, but you're talking some right proper shit there.
It's like comparing chalk and cheese. Disk size, car weight, engine performance, F/R brake bias, F/R disk and pad size ratio, FR, MR, FF or 4WD all affect the braking system.
In effect, because that setup worked on a Fiesta, you're in effect extrapolating that it would work on a Veyron or ANY other car that uses servo assisted disk brakes. Did the fiesta even have ****ing rear disk brakes? FFS!
My A048R's tyres are fantastic on my S2000's, but in the same conditions a caterham would struggle to get them up to temperature and they'd feel crap. Tyres, like brakes have optimal setups and operating temperature.
The s2000 equivalent fiesta setup MAY work, but that would be just luck. And besides, most standard setups work if you don't push the car hard. But just because a particular setup works on one car, it's not a definitive indicator of it working on any other car.
And brake ducts are a non-reversible modification. If requires cutting out parts of the car. Which may not suit everyone.
It's like comparing chalk and cheese. Disk size, car weight, engine performance, F/R brake bias, F/R disk and pad size ratio, FR, MR, FF or 4WD all affect the braking system.
In effect, because that setup worked on a Fiesta, you're in effect extrapolating that it would work on a Veyron or ANY other car that uses servo assisted disk brakes. Did the fiesta even have ****ing rear disk brakes? FFS!
My A048R's tyres are fantastic on my S2000's, but in the same conditions a caterham would struggle to get them up to temperature and they'd feel crap. Tyres, like brakes have optimal setups and operating temperature.
The s2000 equivalent fiesta setup MAY work, but that would be just luck. And besides, most standard setups work if you don't push the car hard. But just because a particular setup works on one car, it's not a definitive indicator of it working on any other car.
And brake ducts are a non-reversible modification. If requires cutting out parts of the car. Which may not suit everyone.
Your looking at it over complex. You have a mass which is centralised in a 3D space. It doesn't matter what drive it is, where the engine is or how many wheels it turns (yes yes, drivetrain inertia, I know), but its still just a mass.
Car designers know this. They work out what size a brake system will need to be based on masses, friction co-efficents, material heat dissipation and data from OTHER CARS.
Honda for example have almost the exact same front brake setup on:
2.2 VTEC preludes, DC2 ITR, Legend, ATR, NSX. All share the same diameter disc and all calipers take the same pad. FF, FR, MR - same front brakes.
As for your caterham tyres:
Your Caterham probably weighs 5-600kg?
Thats half the weight of an S.
I wonder, are the tyres half the size?
Probably not, probably 205 all round?
Simply maths - pressure on tyres isn't nearly the same as with the S, hence, they don't get enough energy into them as quickly.
04-22-2008, 01:25 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Hypersonik,Apr 22 2008, 09:51 AM
No, the Fiesta didn't have rear disc brakes, but then nearly all the braking was done with the front.
Your looking at it over complex. You have a mass which is centralised in a 3D space. It doesn't matter what drive it is, where the engine is or how many wheels it turns (yes yes, drivetrain inertia, I know), but its still just a mass.
Car designers know this. They work out what size a brake system will need to be based on masses, friction co-efficents, material heat dissipation and data from OTHER CARS.
Honda for example have almost the exact same front brake setup on:
2.2 VTEC preludes, DC2 ITR, Legend, ATR, NSX. All share the same diameter disc and all calipers take the same pad. FF, FR, MR - same front brakes.
As for your caterham tyres:
Your Caterham probably weighs 5-600kg?
Thats half the weight of an S.
I wonder, are the tyres half the size?
Probably not, probably 205 all round?
Simply maths - pressure on tyres isn't nearly the same as with the S, hence, they don't get enough energy into them as quickly.
Your looking at it over complex. You have a mass which is centralised in a 3D space. It doesn't matter what drive it is, where the engine is or how many wheels it turns (yes yes, drivetrain inertia, I know), but its still just a mass.
Car designers know this. They work out what size a brake system will need to be based on masses, friction co-efficents, material heat dissipation and data from OTHER CARS.
Honda for example have almost the exact same front brake setup on:
2.2 VTEC preludes, DC2 ITR, Legend, ATR, NSX. All share the same diameter disc and all calipers take the same pad. FF, FR, MR - same front brakes.
As for your caterham tyres:
Your Caterham probably weighs 5-600kg?
Thats half the weight of an S.
I wonder, are the tyres half the size?
Probably not, probably 205 all round?
Simply maths - pressure on tyres isn't nearly the same as with the S, hence, they don't get enough energy into them as quickly.
Just because something works on one car, doesn't mean it will work well on another car.
04-22-2008, 02:44 AM
#27
I don't think people should be overly concerned about tales of Ferrodo pads destroying discs. As said above, the pads just show the weakness in average quality brake discs when on the track. It is easy to become carried away modifying the car (see my sig 
) but at the end of the day, if you are not tracking the car then you are not going to knacker your discs with Ferrodo pads as you simply aren't going to work the brakes hard enough.
Mark, Dave and Rich, contradict me if you disagree.
) but at the end of the day, if you are not tracking the car then you are not going to knacker your discs with Ferrodo pads as you simply aren't going to work the brakes hard enough. Mark, Dave and Rich, contradict me if you disagree.
