Which is best to drive S2000 or Impreza Turbo
02-13-2002, 09:32 AM
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Which is best to drive S2000 or Impreza Turbo
Hi all
I have a Subaru Impreza Turbo and I'm think changing it.I really love the look of the S2000 but I want the performance of the Turbo(or better) I've got a few cars on my list, but I'd like to know what's the performance like compared to my beast from the east.
I'm thinking of importing one for about 21k (ish) or I could go for the new WRX sti.
What's the figures and the in gear times like?
Is it weak below 5000rpm?
Is good on the old jungle juice, the Impreza bad.
How often do you have it serviced.
Regards Adam
I have a Subaru Impreza Turbo and I'm think changing it.I really love the look of the S2000 but I want the performance of the Turbo(or better) I've got a few cars on my list, but I'd like to know what's the performance like compared to my beast from the east.
I'm thinking of importing one for about 21k (ish) or I could go for the new WRX sti.
What's the figures and the in gear times like?
Is it weak below 5000rpm?
Is good on the old jungle juice, the Impreza bad.
How often do you have it serviced.
Regards Adam
02-13-2002, 10:00 AM
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I've had both an Impreza and an S2000. The S2000 was recently traded in for a dog carrier 
The S2000 has a completely different character to the Impreza. While the S2000 isn't the nimblest of cars it feels more "on edge" than the Impreza. It's far less forgiving than the Impreza; in the Impreza I find you can chuck it into a corner and it'll grip its way out. Try this in the S2000 and you'll be heading backward into the nearest hedge. On a country lane there's little that can keep up with a Rally derived AWD. However, for committed driver enjoyment the demands that the S2000 makes leads to vast rewards. Get a corner right in the S2000 and huge grin results. The same corner would probably be quicker in the Impreza but you never know whether it's you or the car which as got it round
Once you've heard the car go through the VTEC point you'll know that there's an experience. The Impreza (with standard BB) is just too refined and carries you along on a wave of torque. Off the line the Impreza would leave the S2000 upto road legal speeds, after this the extra power of the S2000 would allow it to catch up.
Service interval is 9K miles and the STi is now 10K (I believe) so the costs should be similar. On the petrol front, like the Impreza the S2000 can drink well. If you keep it in VTEC all the time then the economy will be slightly better than the Impreza. On a track I managed 6mpg in the Impreza and about 10mpg in the S2000
One of the main advantages of the S2000 over the STi is residuals. I paid 23.5K for my S2000 (brand new - good deal from UK dealer) and managed to loose only a couple of K in 20 months!
I got a quote for the Impreza and I nearly died when I realised how much I've lost in 12 months 
The STi will, I believe, suffer similar residual values especially given the large number of face-lift rumours at the moment.
So I suppose it depends what you want the car for; fast road or track. If its for the track then I'd go for the S2000, if it's fast road then the choice is more difficult. The S2000 demands commitment to get it right (unless you're a straight line speed merchant ) whereas the STi will be more forgiving (just don't lift off mid bend ).
A number of people claim that black S2000's are fastest. Don't listen to them. Silver S2000's have an extra inch of right foot movement
The S2000 has a completely different character to the Impreza. While the S2000 isn't the nimblest of cars it feels more "on edge" than the Impreza. It's far less forgiving than the Impreza; in the Impreza I find you can chuck it into a corner and it'll grip its way out. Try this in the S2000 and you'll be heading backward into the nearest hedge. On a country lane there's little that can keep up with a Rally derived AWD. However, for committed driver enjoyment the demands that the S2000 makes leads to vast rewards. Get a corner right in the S2000 and huge grin results. The same corner would probably be quicker in the Impreza but you never know whether it's you or the car which as got it round
Once you've heard the car go through the VTEC point you'll know that there's an experience. The Impreza (with standard BB) is just too refined and carries you along on a wave of torque. Off the line the Impreza would leave the S2000 upto road legal speeds, after this the extra power of the S2000 would allow it to catch up.
Service interval is 9K miles and the STi is now 10K (I believe) so the costs should be similar. On the petrol front, like the Impreza the S2000 can drink well. If you keep it in VTEC all the time then the economy will be slightly better than the Impreza. On a track I managed 6mpg in the Impreza and about 10mpg in the S2000
One of the main advantages of the S2000 over the STi is residuals. I paid 23.5K for my S2000 (brand new - good deal from UK dealer) and managed to loose only a couple of K in 20 months!
I got a quote for the Impreza and I nearly died when I realised how much I've lost in 12 months The STi will, I believe, suffer similar residual values especially given the large number of face-lift rumours at the moment.So I suppose it depends what you want the car for; fast road or track. If its for the track then I'd go for the S2000, if it's fast road then the choice is more difficult. The S2000 demands commitment to get it right (unless you're a straight line speed merchant
) whereas the STi will be more forgiving (just don't lift off mid bend ).A number of people claim that black S2000's are fastest. Don't listen to them. Silver S2000's have an extra inch of right foot movement
02-13-2002, 10:28 AM
#3
I've only driven one Impreza (STi V5 Type-R 2 door, roof vent, shortest gearing in the world etc.... )
What I would say, is that if you like Impreza's it's a buyers market. The bad residuals Andy's complaining about means you can get even the more desirable older Impreza's quite cheaply.
-Brian.
)What I would say, is that if you like Impreza's it's a buyers market. The bad residuals Andy's complaining about means you can get even the more desirable older Impreza's quite cheaply.
-Brian.
02-13-2002, 10:44 AM
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I had a 1998 Impreza before buying the S2000 so I can make some sort of comparison. I also had a test drive of a 2001 Impreza while looking for a new car. I'll focus on driving as that was the question.
The Subaru...
OK.. The Subaru is definitely easier to drive quickly, works very well in the wet (snow, ice etc) handles well, and because of all the torque, doesn't require you to change gear so often.
This is a bonus, because every time you change gear in the Subaru you are reminded that there is a big ol' 4WD system down there and it's hard work. The clutch is heavy too, although much improved on the new model.
It's very hard to lose control, almost regardless of the conditions (I only managed to lose control once in 3 years).
So, it's very fast, and easy.
The Honda...
Incredible grip in the dry, better ride, better steering, smoother engine (smoother at 9000rpm than the Subaru at 5000rpm) better gearchange, better brakes, better steering, better clutch.
I find it much harder to keep the speed down when driving the Honda because it sounds and feels so wonderful when the revs are up.
The handling on the Honda is less idiot proof, so I think it's fair to say that it doesn't handle quite as well. You have to work the engine harder to get good acceleration - I don't mind this at all!
Having driven both (3 years Subaru, 4 months Honda) I definitely prefer the Honda, but would be quite happy to have another Subaru again, and if I did, would probably drive it harder more often due to its tolerance of the conditions.
However, there's nothing that puts a smile on my face like driving the Honda when the conditions are dry.
Pete
The Subaru...
OK.. The Subaru is definitely easier to drive quickly, works very well in the wet (snow, ice etc) handles well, and because of all the torque, doesn't require you to change gear so often.
This is a bonus, because every time you change gear in the Subaru you are reminded that there is a big ol' 4WD system down there and it's hard work. The clutch is heavy too, although much improved on the new model.
It's very hard to lose control, almost regardless of the conditions (I only managed to lose control once in 3 years).
So, it's very fast, and easy.
The Honda...
Incredible grip in the dry, better ride, better steering, smoother engine (smoother at 9000rpm than the Subaru at 5000rpm) better gearchange, better brakes, better steering, better clutch.
I find it much harder to keep the speed down when driving the Honda because it sounds and feels so wonderful when the revs are up.
The handling on the Honda is less idiot proof, so I think it's fair to say that it doesn't handle quite as well. You have to work the engine harder to get good acceleration - I don't mind this at all!
Having driven both (3 years Subaru, 4 months Honda) I definitely prefer the Honda, but would be quite happy to have another Subaru again, and if I did, would probably drive it harder more often due to its tolerance of the conditions.
However, there's nothing that puts a smile on my face like driving the Honda when the conditions are dry.
Pete
02-13-2002, 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by bmarshall
I've only driven one Impreza (STi V5 Type-R 2 door, roof vent, shortest gearing in the world etc.... )
What I would say, is that if you like Impreza's it's a buyers market. The bad residuals Andy's complaining about means you can get even the more desirable older Impreza's quite cheaply.
-Brian.
I've only driven one Impreza (STi V5 Type-R 2 door, roof vent, shortest gearing in the world etc....
)What I would say, is that if you like Impreza's it's a buyers market. The bad residuals Andy's complaining about means you can get even the more desirable older Impreza's quite cheaply.
-Brian.
The Impreza's residuals aren't too bad. Compared to other mainstream manufacturers they're still quite good. However, they're not in the league of the S2000 at the moment. There's a shortage of 2nd hand S2000 which is keeping their price up at the moment. Clean, unmodified, Impreza's are also in short supply the main problem at the moment is that most people who want one have had one
Interestingly enough the RB5 is now only slightly cheaper than the P1 on the 2nd hand market. Personally, I've always liked the RB5 as it's so understated. However, considering it's a MY98 with PPP and welded rear seats I've never understood why it's commanded such a premium.
The P1 is a drive out of this world. When I got the Turbo I took out a P1. I decided against the P1 as it only has 2 doors (the other car was the S2000!) and I'd have lost my license within the week
02-13-2002, 01:07 PM
#7
Originally posted by awinskill
Uhm STi Type-R, one stomach churning, intenstine moving vehicle. Feels more like Project Nutter than any other road car I've been in
Uhm STi Type-R, one stomach churning, intenstine moving vehicle. Feels more like Project Nutter than any other road car I've been in
P1 does look nice - decent seats which is always high on my list. (I'm not a fan of the S2000's seats. Compared to my ITR's Recaro's they're like broken sofa chairs from the council tip.). I do wonder if the P1 is another car with more grip than handling though - the pictures of the one rolled at Trax were pretty nasty
The brake point is a very good one. I'm concerned over how well my S2000's brakes are going to hold up on track. I've pads/lines/ducts and some very high spec fluid on the way. Even then, I'm already thinking of a bigger upgrade. I hated the ITR's brakes going on the track. The Pinnacle system looks very nice, but could cost a bit to ship. I've already contacted a UK brake specialist about possibly fitting some 4 pot alloy front calipers. I've seen their work on other car's and been impressed. They reckon they can fit a caliper behind the stock wheels without too many problems, or costing the earth. I'm going to wait until I've given the stock brakes a chance first though.
-Brian.
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02-13-2002, 01:33 PM
#8
I'm no expert on this comparison as I've never driven an Impreza. However "apples and pears" and 'reason for ownership' are phrases that comes to my mind here; I mean, just how easy is it to get the roof off an Impreza?
Also the Top Gear ROAD test I read said the S2000 had the second best brakes of any car they had ever tested.
Plus if I was buying a car to drive exclusively on the track I think I'd go for something a little less "luxurious" and a bit more specific for the purpose than an S2000.
Just my 2p
Also the Top Gear ROAD test I read said the S2000 had the second best brakes of any car they had ever tested.
Plus if I was buying a car to drive exclusively on the track I think I'd go for something a little less "luxurious" and a bit more specific for the purpose than an S2000.
Just my 2p
02-13-2002, 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by bmarshall
P1 does look nice - decent seats which is always high on my list. (I'm not a fan of the S2000's seats. Compared to my ITR's Recaro's they're like broken sofa chairs from the council tip.). I do wonder if the P1 is another car with more grip than handling though - the pictures of the one rolled at Trax were pretty nasty
The brake point is a very good one. I'm concerned over how well my S2000's brakes are going to hold up on track. I've pads/lines/ducts and some very high spec fluid on the way. Even then, I'm already thinking of a bigger upgrade. I hated the ITR's brakes going on the track. The Pinnacle system looks very nice, but could cost a bit to ship. I've already contacted a UK brake specialist about possibly fitting some 4 pot alloy front calipers. I've seen their work on other car's and been impressed. They reckon they can fit a caliper behind the stock wheels without too many problems, or costing the earth. I'm going to wait until I've given the stock brakes a chance first though.
-Brian.
P1 does look nice - decent seats which is always high on my list. (I'm not a fan of the S2000's seats. Compared to my ITR's Recaro's they're like broken sofa chairs from the council tip.). I do wonder if the P1 is another car with more grip than handling though - the pictures of the one rolled at Trax were pretty nasty
The brake point is a very good one. I'm concerned over how well my S2000's brakes are going to hold up on track. I've pads/lines/ducts and some very high spec fluid on the way. Even then, I'm already thinking of a bigger upgrade. I hated the ITR's brakes going on the track. The Pinnacle system looks very nice, but could cost a bit to ship. I've already contacted a UK brake specialist about possibly fitting some 4 pot alloy front calipers. I've seen their work on other car's and been impressed. They reckon they can fit a caliper behind the stock wheels without too many problems, or costing the earth. I'm going to wait until I've given the stock brakes a chance first though.
-Brian.
I used to believe that changing the fluid on the S2000 would solve the brake problems. However, after reading Pete Croney's article on the different forms of brake fade (see ScoobyNet discussion) I guess you'd have to go the 4-pot route to get brakes that will stand up to track use.
The Impreza, post MY98 had 4-pots from the JDM WRX on the front. These have slightly more feel than the S2000's brakes though the stopping power doesn't feel as immediate. I did over 250 miles on track with the Impreza and had no brake problems (went through 3 tanks of petrol
). The S2000's brakes went pretty soft after a couple of laps, so trying to conserve the brakes, I had to brake much earlier. All those ITR's were swarming all over me on the bends What I was surprised at with the S2000 brakes is that they appear to be identical to those on the old ITR. I found that the ITR had much better brake feel and were far more progressive. Makes me wonder whether the brake cylinder is rigidly mounted....