mdb_75

I'm after a bit of advice here.


I've recently done a couple of track days in my 1999 year S2000 and I want to tame the rear a little as it scares me a bit! I find the front end really pointy, but I can't really use it as I feel as I'm always wary of the rear end braking loose.

My GEO is -3' and -4' minutes at the front with zero toe and -1.13' and -1.28 at the rear with 0.31' toe.

I will get this changed to a more track orientated setting over the winter (any recommended settings welcome), but I've got a few bolts to free up first.

Tyre size is 225 at the front and 255 rears which are Federal 595 RS-R's on OEM 17's.




The car's got standard very low mileage year 1999 suspension, but I'm currently swapping some parts to make the rear less likely to slide on me.



The standard suspension spec is: Front springs 219Lb, Rear springs 291Lb
Front ARB 393Lb, Rear ARB 427Lb


I'm changing the front struts to year 2005 units with harder 261Lb springs and the rear roll bar to one off a 2002 car with a lower rating of 396Lb which I hope will give me the desired effect. The rear springs are still the 291Lb originals.

I've got several other OEM springs here too and I'm wondering if I should go even harder on the front or maybe softer on the rear?


The available springs I've got are:

Two full sets of the 219Lb front and 291Lb rear year 1999's.
One full set of 261Lb front and 280Lb rear year 2005 springs.
A second pair of 261Lb front year 2005 springs.

Looking at the springs I can't see any reason why you can't use rear springs on the front of the car.

See HERE for spring dimensions, spring rates and roll bar rates over the different model years.


If it is possible to use rear springs on the front of the car then would I be better off using either the 280Lb or 291Lb springs on the front?

I could have 291Lb springs all round, 291Lb on the front with 280LB on the rear or 280Lb on the front with 291Lb on the rear.

I'm also thinking that I should have got an even softer 311Lb rear anti-roll bar off a 2004 or newer S.


Thoughts please, which would you go for? My brains had enough of thinking about spring rates!

MB

A lot to take in there!

How much track experience have you got?

There's no doubt to me your current setup is too stiff at the rear, or too soft at the front depending how firm you like things, but unless you have a lot of track time (you may do!) I wouldn't get too hung up, and make some basic changes to soften the rear first and get used to that over several trackdays.

I think your initial suggestion of 05 front springs and a lower rate arb would be ok. I'd be tempted to use a lower rear spring rate than front, or equal. I dont know the damping of the oem suspension though.

Dembo

3 minutes of front camber? That sounds like it'd understeer like an oil tanker.

You're going to ridiculous lengths when what you should be doing is sorting out the geo.

lovegroova

Is the 31' of rear toe a total, or each side? If it is total, try adding a bit more.

Where is the rear breaking loose? Under braking, corner entry or corner exit?

How much track experience do you have? Would it be worth getting some driver tuition. Maybe try taking corners in one gear higher, that will cure exit oversteer and enable you to concentrate on cornering speeds.

tozerman

So on one side at front you have -3 and -4 camber on the other side, with very low rear camber and is that a lot of rear toe as well ?
As Dembo said get your geo sorted first beofore doing anything, I have a 1999 S with std suspension and whilst it is more of a handful than the later cars it is by no means trying to spin without warning.

Having read your full post are your front camber bolts seized ?

MB

Half a degree at the front isn't much, but the rear is the reported issue. Driving style is one issue, but that stiff of a rear is always going to be playful.

mdb_75

I'm not the most experienced track day er, that's probably why I don't want any oversteer!

I did three days a few years ago in an Mi16 engined 205. I could push that as much as I wanted to as I always felt in control.
After that I built a mid engined Sylva Mojo se and did three or four days in that. That felt safe too despite the engine being in the rear.

The S2000 just feels like the rear could go at any time. It only goes a little when it does, but that's probably because I'm not pushing too hard as I'm ready for it.

I know my geo's not ideal for the track, but for a road setting it's fairly standard I think. I could do with a bit more camber as I can see the tyres wear more on the outer edges than anywhere else when on track. On the road they wear very evenly.

The rear toe I gave is total toe.

The oversteer I get is mid corner really. None under breaking, maybe a little on the corner exit and tuition is definitely needed. ..... :-)

As my next track day is only next weekend there's no time to adjust the geo as I have got to un seize a few of the bolts first which is a big job. I plan to do that over winter when I take the car off the road.

The quickest and easiest for me to do is to swap a few bits around that I already have.

I've swapped the rear roll bar this afternoon and put the 2005 front struts on.
It feels good out on the road, but I won't really know what it's done for the balance until next weekend.

Si2k

Dial more camber in and reduce the rear toe. It will be a different car.

You may have 'over gripped' the front with 225s too.

ADAM_ROB_UK

if you plqy with anything suspension related you will need to get the GEO re sorted.
leave the car as it is and try and get a bit more experience under your belt before you start swapping stuff and hoping for the best