Wildncrazy

By some judicious reading I have found out that Boston Legal wasn't making a mountain out of a mole hill and even if you have always paid your bills and had good service odds are you will begin to have troubles & huge fees/interest rates.

They have been quietly changing the rules on us all. And we've given them the right to do so.

As far as interest rate not mattering if you use the cards responsibly and for your convenience I don't understand how 30% interest could not matter. A few years ago that type of interest rate was illegal and only Loan Sharks charged those kind of fees.

The sad part is that even tho it costs the merchants money it is still more convenient for them than checks. Let's see, it costs the merchants and it costs the consumer and they are urging paperless transactions, so who is benefitting?

With what I have read and heard in the last few days I am becoming a conspiracy theory nut. I have always used credit cards and not thought much about them, but apparently I won't have that luxury much longer.

Dang if it isn't taxes it huge credit card fees dipping into my retirement

The more I have to give away the less I have to spend on cars!! That's sick! Sigh.

cdelena

Show us. I have charged well over a half million dollars over the years without spending a time on interest or fees.. and I don't think I am alone.

Wildncrazy

Let me pull together some links and I will post them. I got a lot of data from the creditboards.com link and the links from their sites. The "Schaeffer boxes" (I think that's the name) disclose major terms like the 30% rates but they don't show the triggering offenses, that takes going to each card's site and getting the full agreement.

I can't believe you haven't paid fees or interest on your cards. I pay mine off religiously (my personal cards) and have found it to be impossible not to pay some fees or interest. Most cards don't give you a free grace period anymore or if they do it is shorter than your billing cycle so if you wait until you receive a bill then they will be charging interest. The most common grace period I can find is 20 days.

It's not too hard to find a card without an annual fee but that is not the fees I am talking about.

I do loans for people of all income levels and the credit card fees and costs are hot topics everytime we get to the part of the application that deals with credit. I just presumed that it was more a factor of which card you had rather than in industrywide trend until I saw a couple of news reports and the Boston Legal episode.

"Times they be a changin'." as the old saying goes.

marcucci

cdelena is not alone. The interest/fees I have paid on my cards since ever having them have been attributed to my neglect- being out of town, missing a bill, etc. With much of a history the companies will generally waive fees.

I have two cards that are from the supposedly worst providers- First USA (now Chase) and Citi. Both have provided great customer service when I've needed it.

The key is to use the cards like you would cash- don't overspend or run balances. If you use credit cards like a loan or advance you are setting yourself up for disaster. Credit card companies make their money off of interest and fees, the 2% or so that they pass on to merchants doesn't contribute near as much to their bottom line. They prey off of people who are too stupid to manage their money (and debt). This doesn't make them evil, it just makes them very capitalistic.

YodaJuiceS2K

Usury laws apply to necessary credit (e.g. House). Revolving lines of credit do not meet that standard in most states. The states have usury laws, a credit card is not deemed a 'necessary'.

~Adam

Paul W

I've had terrific service from American Express for a corporate card. The level of services they offer the user are second to none. For personal cards I use both an American Airlines Citi card & First United Card. I don't fly United anymore so I called First Cards to cancel my United Visa and get a credit for the $60 annual fee...they closed that account for me, credited me back my $60 and gave a no-annual fee card that allows me to direct 1 mile per $ to any ailrline I choose...not a bad deal just for asking.

Like Mr. Delena, I've never paid a dime in "creative" fees or interest.

I too am a "deadbeat", I guess, but as a long term customer they still tend to provide service when needed. Both First and Citi have been fair in reconciling a couple of fraudulent charges I received while traveling overseas.

cdelena

American Express has changed it's ways and apparently has regained some credibility it lost with it's old business practices.

I had a AE "no limit" corporate card declined because of 'credit limit' while on a business trip in Asia 15 or so years ago. I was so incensed that that I came back and had my whole group switched to a Citibank card.. and have campaigned against using AE ever since.

Have had great service from Citi and others but always read any change in agreement notice and have cancelled cards more than once when they no longer met my needs.

Wildncrazy

This thread has taken a turn a little different than I intended. I am looking for a good business credit card and was hoping for some suggestions based upon personal experience. Does anyone have a business card with a Credit Union?

Someone mentioned American Express. I too cancelled my AE cards last year due to similar issues and then the inability to talk to sane person, but AE has one big advantage to the consumer over MC or Visa. When you have a dispute they automatically take the consumer's side, reverse the debt and require the store to prove up the bill. Visa and MC do exactly the opposite and take the side of the store and require you to prove you don't owe the bill. When travelling outside the US that can be a big plus! But beware the Blue Sky card. Check the interest rate disclosure, you are definitely paying for the travel credits!

Those of you who haven't paid ANY credit card fees are in for a suprise. The credit card laws changed in October and according to the news last night more changes are in store in January.

The reason I was looking to change companies is due to these changes and the other fine print I found in my card company. I understand that there is a cost for credit. I understand better than most since I deal with and extend credit daily, I just want a fair agreement.

Example: CITI card: The APR for purchases is 0% for 6 months from date of account opening. After the promotional period ends, your standard purchase APR will be applied to any unpaid balances. As of December 16, 2005, the standard variable purchase APR is 13.24% and the standard variable cash advance APR is 22.24%. However, all your APRs may automatically increase up to the 31.24% variable default rate [B]if you default under any Card Agreement that you have with us.[B] I added the bold. The phrase ANY CARD AGREEMENT part is what gets you. It could be not notifying them quickly enough when you move, not getting your payment in before the due date OR any minor infraction to a rule that doesn't exist yet. Also notice that this is a Variable Rate not a fixed rate. With a Variable rate they can change the rate by any formula they desire, but with a fixed rate they have to give you 15 days notice.

CHASE: is a little trickier. You can't even find their terms when applying online without some diligent searching. Balance Transfer APR: A 0% fixed APR for the first 12 billing cycles following the opening of your account. After that, 11.74% variable, 15.74% variable, or 19.74% variable, [B]depending on our review of your application and credit history.[B] Once again they get to change the rules whenever they want.

Default APR: 30.99% variable. What constitutes a default is left up to them. One of their definitions of default is for you to close the account.

When is a payment due on a credit card? That isn't always immediately apparent and their definition of late doesn't necessarily meet your definition. You would think that you are late if your payment reaches them after the due date, but that's not right EVER. The payment has to be received & processed by them before the due date. Processing can take 3-5 days. In many cases you are late (from the standpoint of them being able to add fees or raise your interest rate) if the payment reaches them more than a certain number of days after they think you should have received your statement. Here are some quotes:

Also, David Bach, CEO of Finish Rich Inc. and author of "The Finish Rich Workbook," reports that some companies have a specific time on the due date that the bill is actually due. Look for that, too.

"That's a huge trick," says Bach. "If a bill is due at noon, and someone gets their payment in on the last day in the afternoon, they're hit with a late fee." (both Citi and Chase have this clause)

"Robert D. Manning, a professor of finance at the Rochester Institute of Technology, reports that some companies employ a double-billing cycle, which means that while the due date on your statement refers to your minimum payment, the due date to pay off your entire balance is different.

If that due date is two weeks earlier, and you pay off your entire card by the due date stated on your bill, then the company could still charge you interest for the two-week interim period. Payments are applied to the lowest interest rate debt first and the highest rate last.

Experts commonly suggest that a low, fixed-rate credit card is better than a low, variable-rate credit card. Card companies can raise their fixed-rate cards when interest rates go higher, but change is not automatic and they need to give you fifteen days notice. With a variable-rate card your rate can move regularly and without any prior notification."

"Information like when a card company can raise your rate -- is often buried in mail they send you. So always be careful: that may not be useless promotional/advertising junk you're throwing away from your credit card company's envelope. It may be important. For example, it may be a notification that your fantastic rate triples the first time you're late with a payment -(per the terms not the due date). The same advice applies not only when you're searching for a card, but after you get one -- check out all that 'junk' mail in our statement envelope before you toss it."

"Understand key numbers before you sign: What is the APR, annual fee, grace period, penalties, late payment charges, over-the-limit fees, and interest rates on any cash advances, and under what circumstances the card company can change your interest rate (or any other terms of the deal)? Basically if they dislcosed it in the fine print, they can change ALL YOUR TERMS at any time without notification"

Virtually every credit card company has a binding arbitration clause which severely limits your rights and ups your costs. Read this about binding arbitration: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/advice/20041117a1.asp

Here's a new one to me. If you have ever defaulted on a debt, be very careful that your solicitations for "new" cards nor the fine print mentions your old debts.

Some credit card issuers buy old debts from other companies and then offer "new" cards to the people in debt, only to shock the card holder on their first statement with the old debt. If a company mentions their right to do this in writing at any time, then it's legal, and you're responsible.

"Grace periods are disappearing or changing to terms that are impossible to meet. With many cards if you wait until you receive the statement then you are outside of the grace period. Here are the ways the balance can be computed:

Average daily balance -- with this most common method the balance is calculated by taking the amount of debt you had in your account each day during the billing statement period and averaging it.

Adjusted balance -- is figured by subtracting the payments you've made from the previous balance.

Previous balance -- is the balance outstanding at the end of the previous billing statement period.

You'll notice that only one of those ways takes your payment off before the interest is calculated."

I too pay most or all of my credit cards off monthly, but I have been hit with many little fees over the years. My business account isn't always paid off monthly so I have to look at many of these terms and what I have read and what I have seen on TV scares me. Since credit cards are a necessity if for no other reason than helping you develop a high credit score I'd rather be proactive and find a card without all these strange terms and without the capacity to change the rules on me later when I'm not looking.

mxt_77

I dunno.. maybe I'm just too carefree, but I've never had any of these issues with my credit card provider(s). I've been with Citibank for 10 years, and I pay my bill online, and I often wait until the very last minute to pay it, and never have any problems. They provide the "Expected Post Date", and my payment is always posted on that date.

Also, when I had a dispute on my Bank One Visa debit card, the bank took my side and immediately added a "temporary" credit to my account for the disputed amount while they performed the investigation. A while later (I think it was 30 days), they sent me a message informing me that they hadn't been able to verify the charge, so they were making the credit to my account "permanent".

I guess there are circumstances where credit card companies can do quirky stuff, and all of these strange clauses in the agreements allow them to do that, but I don't see why they would want to do that if it's going to cause a customer to leave and go elsewhere.

TommyDeVito

They are all crooks. None of us should be using them anyway unless you pay the balance completely off EVERY MONTH or in case of an EMERGENCY. This whole country is in deep debt.