Gernby

I'm actually starting to agree that the S2000 shouldn't be dropped back down to X class. I now think the MX-5 (NC Miata?) should be bumped up to Y class, and the AWD turbos should be bumped to Z. It seems that this would give a nice increase to the number of Z class participants, and would put the higher powered cars all together. Instead of specifically bumping the STI and EVO, maybe there should be another multiplier added for AWD similar to the 2X rotary and 1.5x force induction multipliers...

CosmosMpower

Now you are seeing the light. Not sure if AWD is really worthy of a multiplier, it's completely course and venue dependent whereas forced induction is not. The problem with bumping the AWD turbo cars to Z even if they are on street tires is that most the current Z competition is on R comps. Even the Elise can still compete in Y on street tires. But if you bump the turbo AWD cars to Z they lose that option. Some people don't like running R comps.

I do agree that NC is a definite bump to Y though for next year.

rjones

With just 3 classes it will never be fair to everyone (or even most). I think it works well enough for local events. Just accept you may get out gunned. You have people in “stock” S2000’s on street tires, vs. CSP Miata’s on R-comps or S2000’s on R-comps vs. Vetts or R-comps.

I don’t think adding a bunch of classes where everyone wins like SCCA works very well on the local level either. If I was going to change anything it would be the bump for R-comps. The way it is now guys in Z are SOL if they don’t run R-comp, and guys in Y are SOL if someone bumps from X on R-comps.

Gernby

Anyone else planning to attend the BMW autocross this weekend at TMS?!?

altiain

What Robert said. This is a local only BMW series - you guys sure are getting your panties in a wad!

Greg, you really should go back and run with the SCCA. You get more caught up in rules and classing minutia than most of the hardcore SCCA guys I know (myseslf included).

762

I was just adding my observations. I really think both the NTAXS and BMW classing systems are great for their simplicity.

Out here in Arizona all the events are SCCA based. Just with two different SCCA regions.

altiain

Wrong Greg, counselor. I was referring to gernby in my post.

Gernby

I wanted to think about this before responding, since I really have no idea what you're talking about. I don't care about SCCA at all, and can't think of a time in the last few years that I've discussed autocross classification rules outside of this thread. I think I've mentioned it to 2 people at BMW events prior to this thread, and doubt you (Iain) would even know about those 2 times. I'm bringing it up now only because I think it should be considered for next season.

I'm not making this suggestion so that I win more. I'm making the suggesion because it seems that the "S2000 clause" in the rules has outlived its usefullness and needs to be revisited. BTW, I just won the points championship in Y class for '11, but if the S2000 had been in X class this year, I'm pretty sure I would NOT have won. I think Mike or Jerrett would have won X class, and I would have come in 2nd or 3rd.

The discussion in this thread really has changed my opinion about the classes. I now think that it would be better to change the displacement range for X class so that the MX5 and S2000 automatically get bumped to Y class (good suggestion from Joseph), and the older Miatas stay in X class. However, I think that there needs to be a multiplier for AWD that would move some of the AWD turbo buggies from Y to Z. I think this would improve the distribution of entrants among X Y and Z, since Z is always so much smaller than X and Y.

One more interesting data point is that 1/3 of the Y class entrants yesterday were S2000's (7 out of 21), but the top 2 S2000's took 3rd and 12th place in Y.

On a more positive note ... I finally got decent results from Harry's Laptimer Pro on my iPhone 4! This is with an external GPS (Emprum UltiMate GPS) and a PLX Kiwi WiFi OBDII connection.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkH2whpa_ac[/media]

CosmosMpower

There honestly weren't many well prepped s2000s with good drivers, besides yours. The s2000 crowd isn't like it used to be with hardcore racers, it's mostly people that want to have some fun. Boost buggies to Z isn't fair they have no chance on street tires. Just look at the difference in me and the Evo X in class Y. S2000 and NC miatas with STR prep can hang with the STU boost buggies.

I think the only classing changes needed are to bump the NC to Y class.

Gernby

As I've said, we are totally in agreement about the newer miatas bumping up to Y class. That makes all kinds of sense.

One thing I haven't looked at is how the AWD turbo buggies would have done in Z class this year. If they would have only been beaten by the boosted Lotus, then that would make even more sense.