janat

I have owned MY02 for 2 years and I have 22,000 miles on it. Yesterday I purchased 4 new tires at Discount Tire of Bedford. I noticed when my front tires were removed, they were original S02's ,the inside inch or so was worn almost to the steel belts. The young man working on the car suggested that I have an alignment done. The rear tires were my second set of S02's and have some tread left and the wear was very even. I took the car to have an alignment done this morning and the shop told me that "there is not enough adjustment to get the rear in spec." Also that the way the specs are for the front , they will wear out very fast. I know the tires on this car wear fast. I do not care I love the car and the way it handles. What I am wondering is are they telling me the truth or not. Thanks in advance.

Trey

Kaiser

I don't know a whole lot about that kind of thing - but my first impression on hearing that the inside of the fronts was worn is that the front struts are worn out.... Did they say anything about that?

Wildncrazy

You probably just have the factory alignment which is pretty aggressive and leads to inside tire wear. There is a cure for the inside tire wear tho, autocross more!

That will even the wear up as under hard cornering the tire will flatten out.

You can do a search on the alignment bolts, but IIRC by taking the bolts out and reversing them you will get more adjustment range. I had the same problem when mine was new and the alignment tech did that and got me quite a bit more adjustment. As a matter of fact I have never aligned mine to the limits since then.

On the front if you will UP the caster to the max the car will give you it will give a little more steering feel and in an oversteer situation if you allow the wheel to slip between your hands the car will actual straighten itself out, if you have enough road room.

The extra caster allows you to reduce the camber slightly, which will eliminate some of the inside tire wear, without a loss in handling. More caster gives more camber when the wheel is turned.

This means in a straight line the tire is sitting flatter to the road (less camber) but when you need it, when the wheel is turned, more camber is being dialed in. I have heard, but have not measured, that by taking the caster to max you will get about 1.5 degrees more camber when the wheel is turned.

Several alignment guys, magazines and other lists have agreed in concept, they just have had no way to quantify how much extra camber could be added.

janat

Thank you so much........

Gregg Lee

22,000 is good life for fronts. Having said that, my guess is fronts were not inflated enough. The front specs will not cause premature wear if inflated properly. The front suspension adjustment is dead simple. The rear adjustment is tricky, and very sensitive to small adjustments. You must adjust two of the three lower links simultaneously - together for camber and opposite direction for toe. With this system it is just about impossible to adjust camber without affecting toe and vice versa. You must use small adjustments to go back an forth between camber and toe and sneak up to it. It is entirely possible that the tech didn't figure it out, got frustated and quit.

I would doubt the skill of any tech who would say a factory spec was wrong or could not be achieved. Sometimes you can't tell if someone is lying or stupid - but the effect is the same.

Underinflation will cause wear on edges of tire regardsless of alignment. (and spec negative camber biases the wear to the inside, more than it would if inflated properly) The following recommendation will vary a little by tire brand and size, but with 205 fronts, you need at least 36 psi to get even wear. In the rear more than 32 will wear the center first. You can definitely extend rear life with lower pressure.

If you have changed tire size, the wider the tire, the lower the pressure needed for even wear. I run 28 in my 245/45 rear Goodrichs.

[These are pressures for even street wear - not for performance driving]

Toe out would also cause inside wear, but you would probably feel it, since it would make the car tend to "dart" side to side rather than track straight.

Gregg

Gregg Lee

Oh, probably not. There are no struts on an S2000.

Kaiser

damn... I knew I was going to embarass myself somehow.

Everything is so hard to get to and see under this car (compared to my truck, anyway) that I must admit that I don't know much about what is under there. I'm stock and just enjoy driving the thing as-is so far.

I went to the Monroe website before posting to try to avoid this - and it says struts on all four wheels....

Sorry... but anyway if you *did* have struts and if they *did* wear out, inside tire wear would be a symptom.

janat

Thank you Gregg..............

Wildncrazy

Yeah, tires don't last long on an S. My front tires only lasted me about 25,000 miles, but that was with several autocrosses and one track day.

Gregg's over inflation (36 psi or more) method is a stop gap method of trying to balance wear, but doesn't address the real issue. Over inflation will bulge the center out which would change the wear pattern away from the extreme edge, but the S's have a history of inside wear with the factory specs.

You're right it could have been an incompetant alignment tech that didn't want to fiddle with the settings, but there is also a known issue with alignment adjustment range limitations that can be corrected by turning the bolt over so I guess it could have been either, the only way to know for sure is to take your car to another alignment center and see if they too have the same problem. If they do the tell them to reverse the bolt.

The bolt sits offcenter in the eccentric. I am not by the car so I can't check to see which way it sits, but if your bolt is offcenter to the left then reverse so that it is offcenter to the right.

Also try an alignment tech who is familiar with performance alignments and is familiar with the S.

I use James @ Firestone on the corner of Campbell & Jupiter Roads in Richardson. He came recommended by some BMW guys and he has the added advantage of offering a Lifetime alignment for around $125. He has aligned my car dozens of times and I have paid him only once.

In the beginning I took the UK alignment off S2ki and started. Then after an autocross I'd tell him how it handled and how I wanted it to handle and he'd make compensations. We finally ended up with an alignment spec that works for me and my driving style.

I'd post it but it would not be right for you, you will have to develop one that works for your style. I prefer mostly neutral balanced while leaning just a tad towards oversteer, most people like one leaning towards understeer. The oversteer aspect is why it is so important for me to have max caster. Tire life was another reason for researching that angle.

Gregg Lee

Be careful. The eccentric is how the suspension is adjusted. Where it sits is wherever was needed to align the suspension - different for every car. The bolt has a round "cam" on it that rotates in the hole through the suspension arm bushing. Rotate the bolt and the arm moves in or out with the cam lobe. If you move the bolt you change the suspension adjustment.

This design has become common, and is certainly easier than the old shim system but since the amount of turn required for a given degree change constantly varies (it's a sine wave of course) it is not suited to quick and frequent adjustment. Which is why race cars have treaded rods on all adjustments - like the front toe adjustment on the S2000.


And I guess Monroe thinks coilover and strut are the same thing.

Gregg