DoGMaN

I have to agree with Nimesh.

I bought a S2000 because at the time I was buying a Boxster S and tried the S, I didn't see the reason to spend the money on the Boxster. I also thought i'd get better service at the time because they aim it directly at that demo. Did it happen no, do I regret buying the car?? sometimes. When? Service.

The issue is this, they aim at a market they can't or are not willing to support in the way they expect (I assume). From the content above I can see that everyone seems to expect that treatment.

I don't agree with you folks in the space of the Dealers are the key. They are a retail outlet for sales and service. Thats all. They cannot influence corporate culture and expectations expected. If you want to educate Honda you need to deal with Honda Canada and or the parent in Japan.

What you can do to the dealer is not buy another one from them, it impacts Honda Canada too, but on a micro level.

If you want to change how Honda handles Customer Care (I say that gnashing teeth) you need to let them know how you feel.

BMW, Benz, Porsche etc have better customer service for 2 reasons. The customers DEMAND it, they don't want bullshit and pay accordingly. The second is the CORPORATION demands it. Its how they do business and communicate it directly to the dealers.

If you have a good Honda dealer then thats fantastic. Go with it hold it in your arms and never let it go. Just don't think that its representative of what Honda as a whole will offer accross the board.

Now everyone, write something intellegent and let Honda know how you feel. If we all complain in a coherent fashion they might listen, they might even acknowledge.

When Mike and I spoke with the Jean-Marc in February, he was very concerned with how we felt, he was very sure that things were going to change in the dealer space this year. Maybe we can start with him. He's the guy responsible for all dealers.

matrix

I was going to buy a Z3 - I was literally hours away from it. Just a fleeting thought about taking out an S2000 changed that. If I had bought the Z3 and later learned what I know about the S2000, would I have regretted it? Yes - everytime I got into the car. Would I have been happy with BMW's service - most likely, but I am also not unhappy about the current service I get from Honda. I may be just plain lucky.

So what was your criteria for buying a car? The product or the service? In an ideal world you would get both, but clearly, neither are available to you at the price point we are talking about.

So here we are talking about lack of service, etc and what were we discussing a few days ago? How to save a few bucks on a warranty. Do you honestly think that most BMW or MB owners try to scape a few bucks off the price? There is nothing wrong with looking for the lowest price...but if we blame the dealers about their service, we are as much to blame because we constantly try to squeeze them. It has to be a 2 way street.

So if we want the value added service feel...you have to pay for it.

Nimesh was right about these two points being directly related.

Triple-H

I agree! The S is a very high-end product for Honda; they are cutting their teeth in the upper market. They are running into customer expectations not only for the price point of the S, but also at a much higher price point for vehicles like the Boxster as Vince said he was contemplating.

DoGMaN

Yay we're finally having a good conversation!

Its tough isn't it. I'm like Nimesh, I've gotten to the the point where I expect every step of the day to have my needs catered too. Its a job culture thing but its something you get used to I guess. So when I drive into the dealer ship with their top of the line vehicle and they still manage to rape me I get annoyed. I just don't expect it. Maybe its the surprise factor I don't like. Maybe I just shouldn't be surprised. Maybe its just me heh

My criteria was simple, I want the most bang for my buck with excellent service. I got one of those and I was promissed another. People lie.

I never begrudge anyone making a buck, its how things work but do I want to pay them $65 or $70 an hour in labour and still get my car screwed up..naw I don't think so. Do I want to pay $10 for a part that cost them .25? No I don't think so.

If the service is going to be done right and for a fair price then I'm all for it, will go out of my way to try to obtain it. If its rape its rape and I'll dicker it down until I'm comfortable.

With the topic of customer service and cost being related, I think that is correct in most cases. However look at Kia and Hyundai. Not even on the map a few years back are now in the top ten. In canada Kia is in the top 7 dealers...amazing. Who'd think that was even possible with such a suckass vehicle.

It just shows me that it doesn't have to be the way it is, as car costs go up so will expectations. I think that is a major piece of the issue.

S2kRob

It should also be pointed out that when a bunch of American S2000 owners went to Japan, Honda corporate threw out the red carpet, including a trip to Motegi to sample the S2000 Type-V and a seminar presented by the project leader for the S2000.

So no local representation does piss me off just a little bit.

Triple-H

And I still think the dealer is the key to day to day happiness with the marque.

DoGMaN

Well Doug you SUCK

hehe

I think they will be key when they are told be key so there!

matrix

Exactly what a board like this is supposed to be used for...discussing ideas like adults .

I am in 100% agreement with you, I want the most bang for my buck. But Honda Canada will never be able to control the dealers, they are privately owned operations.

If you had bought that Boxster, what do you think an oil change from the dealer would have cost you? My bet is it would be a lot more than the $36 or so that we pay.

I agree with you that it does not have to be this way...if we change one dealer, Honda Canada will hopefully notice that and wonder why they are so successful because they track them. Change from the bottom up may just happen, I won't bet on it, but I am willing to give it a shot. After all what other choice do we have?

Let's look at some ficticious number that I hope are somewhere near reality.

In the 3 years that the S2000 has been out lets say 2000 where sold in Canada. This being one of thier most profitable cars lets say they make a whooping 10K on each (I know this is no where near) that mean in 3 years this car represents about $20M for HC.

Now compare to the Civic. In the same three years they sell 500,000 (probably more like a couple million). Profit on each was a mere $500...to HC that represents $250M.

Clearly, we do not offer HC what we think we do. Granted that we do represent the upper end of their car line up. But the critical mass just is not there...

Now who is buying cars is an interesting question. If you have a group of people that buy roughly 750 cars a year (based on my 2000 over 3 years) and another group that buys about 150,000 during the same period and that division is more profitable...they clearly are catering to the buying majority because the Civic and Accord are constantly on top of customer satisfaction surveys.

PLYRS 3

not to pick on vince, but he's right....many times, it's just US. OUR expectations.

you want to buy a benz? you pay FULL MSRP!! maybe they'll throw in a $500 CD changer (if you're lucky).....

but, you know what? call the service dept with your new benz....they'll come to your door to pick up the car and drop it off when it's ready....washed, vacuumed and a full diagnostic report waiting in a nice vinyl envelope.

fluids are always topped up and they won't even charge you for some stuff that they can/should charge you for (non-warranty items). i got new AMG mats after i complained that i couldn't get my "old" ones clean after the winter - i was fully expecting and willing to pay for them ($110)...but when the car came home, there was n/c.

having given the example, i'm fully aware that i have "intrinsically" paid for this level of service by paying full retail for the car, so i'm not kidding my self by thinking that i'm special.....

who are the honda guys dealing with?? some guy who wants to bargain over a pair of $20 wiper blades....

therein lies the problem....

matrix

You got it Nimesh...we want change, we have to change also. It has to be a 2 way street.