KeithD

ing democrats...

bullet1123

you guys need to smoke some pot and relax!!!!!!!!!!

Hunter

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacGyver
Yeah, can we all finally get past my "terror" comment and discuss the underlying issue I was trying to get at in the first place?

mav

My STFU, is in reference to your not voting comment, not meant as a general comment. IMO, if you don't vote, then you shouldn't complain about the system.

Hunter

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mav

Hunter

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2KSuzuka

Russ

Dan, great change comes from individual action, rarely from collective thought.
I most strongly encourage you to vote, even if it means a write-in. Too many people sit
on the sidelines because they feel there vote won't make a difference but as the
last presidential election proved, it was the votes that WEREN'T cast that determined
the outcome, not those that were. The Florida pct was split 48% to 48%, New
Mexico was just as close.
For a military veteran, what discourages me personally is knowing most young
Americans would rather stand in line for two hours to see a concert than 15 minutes
to cast their ballot.

MacGyver

Jeff, I'd agree that it has become more an issue of "mood" in today's society. I've paid close attention to the political bantering that has gone on through the years (at least once I was old enough to figure out what the debates were about), but even then, I still feel a real sense of complacency.

Can I, as an individual, truly make a difference? Possibly. But as with people who are told all of their lives how terrible they are and actually begin to believe it, I think a growing number of people in my age group and younger (Gen X, Gen Y...Gen Z?) view the world as being too complex and filled with an ever-increasing number of rules and regulations to get beyond. I can imagine the exact opposite problem as today happening a couple of hundred years ago...there were very few laws, so weeding through them was easier, but I'm sure more problems ocurred BECAUSE there were so few laws. It's a Catch-22...we need the multitude of laws to create a more civilized society, yet the ever increasing number of rules and regulations makes further changes all that much more difficult.




Tommy, give me a valid reason why as a non-voter (at least so far) what I say is any less valid than a voter. Let's say for the sake of argument there are two candidates, 'A' and 'B'. Candidate 'A' wishes to accomplish two things in his career...he wishes to get America completely out of debt by calling in all outstanding debts from other countries, and in doing so knows he will essentially destroy the economy of several third world nations. Candidate 'B' wishes to feed all of the starving people in America, but in doing so will have to cancel practically all military spending, which means laying off a ton of workers and opening us up to attack.

Now, both candidates (at least in MY opinion) wish to do great things in their terms in office, but to accomplish these things they must make a major sacrifice. So, which candidate should I choose? It doesn't matter which I choose, there will be grave consequences to either choice. Neither is crooked, both have great intentions, but they both will certainly do great harm to a lot of people. Now, show me a candidate 'C' who can do the good things without the bad, and THEN I'll vote.

But back to the point at hand. I choose not to vote for either candidate because I do not feel either is right for the job. In that manner, I DID vote...I chose not to bring 2 bad choices into the White House. I didn't sit back and say "What happens, happens, it doesn't concern me." No, I said "I'm not happy with my choices, and I'm not putting anyone in the White House until I'm offered a choice that satisfies me." Am I expecting too much out of a mere human? Quite possibly, but that doesn't mean I should pick one of the two choices presented to me, it means I keep looking until I find someone worthy of my vote.

I have every right NOT to vote for the handful of candidates provided to me, I have every right to demand a higher caliber of candidate, I have every right to speak my mind about what ideals that candidate should embody, and I have every right to complain if the current candidates DON'T embody those ideals. I may not take such a proactive step as to run for office myself, but I DO take the step of complaining about the candidates that do exist, where I see there shortcomings and advantages, and in THAT manner I do my part to change the system. Somewhere along the way I will be heard by the right person (at least I can hope that will happen), someone who IS in power, someone who CAN make a serious change in the system. It is my DUTY to complain about any part of the system I find fault with...if no one makes it known they believe something is wrong with the system, no one is going to bother trying to fix it.

So you stand in line and cast your vote for some guy picked by someone else to represent you....when he does something right, do you stand up and cheer, proclaiming your victory? Do you stand up and accept the blame when that same guy makes a royal screw up? You voted for him, you made your choice, known, so why not? I didn't vote for him, so I don't have to say to the guy next to me, "Wow, he really screwed up, I'm sorry I voted for him now." But I don't waste my time saying "Wow, I'm glad I didn't vote for HIM!" I accept it as sometimes you get the dog, sometimes the dog gets you. I'm just waiting to see a condidate who will get the dog most of the time...still waiting.

There hasn't been a single candidate as long as I can remember where I didn't MAJORLY disagree with on at least one point. So wouldn't I be a hypocrite voting for that person in the next election? Sure, I may totally agree with them on other points, but I woudl be selling myself short on that one (or more) subject that I disagreed with. How many elections should I vote in before I begin to realize I lost a lot to compromise over the years? Remember, no matter which candidate I choose, I'm screwing myself on one subject or another...six of one, half a dozen of the other. But either way, my opinions on those subjects matters, regardless of who I did or did not vote for.

Ganthet

I think it would be totally great to have on every election ballot an option of "None of the above". It would be even better to have those results posted along with the others, so that politicians could see just how many people feel that ALL the candidates were terrible choices. It would be interesting to see the results of that. I suppose that information is somewhat evident when you figure out just what the voter turnout was after an election, but there are sometimes other factors that affect that figure.

I still maintain that if one really feels that all the choices are terrible, then one shouldnt feel pressured to choose the LEAST bad as their choice. As Dan said, the voter can still make a choice that says "I chose none of you. I dislike you all" by simply not voting. I'm not basing this on just disagreeing with one or two things about a candidate, since you will never find somebody you totally agree with about everything. I'm basing it on my personal view that so far, in the years I've been able to vote, there hasn't been anybody that I really felt strongly enough about EITHER way (for or against) to vote on it.

My personal feeling is that nobody really knows WTF to do. I think all the candidates will do some good and some bad but nobody is going into the job with a list of things SO good or SO bad that I feel compelled to vote for/against him. Whoever gets elected, they are going to do BOTH good and bad. When his term is over, there will be a list of things he did that were good for us, bad for us and an even BIGGER list of things that made no real impact at all. Even more, the next guy is going to come into office and change it all back anyway!

The day that I see a candidate that really makes me think they are going to make a huge difference (good or bad), then I will voice my opinion with my ballot.

Also, for those that are screaming that not voting is somehow denying your responsibility as an American, I remind you that the president is not the most important position in government. Are you running out and voting at every local election, congressional election, judicial election, etc? All of these things make a difference.....just a thought

Also, if its shirking your duty to not vote, then the Founding Fathers would have made it mandatory that all citizens of legal age should be required to vote. Funny thig is....they didn't! So I guess that means they recognized that not everybody would want to excercise their right to vote. Imagine that!

Hunter

Lets look at it this way. A lot of voters always cast their ballots for the canditate who seems to them to be one of the people. That means he must have the same superstitions, the same unbalanced prejudices, and the same lack of understanding of the public finances that are characteristic of the majority. A better choice would be a candidate who has a closer understanding and a better education than the majority. To much voting is based on affability rather than ability.

I choose to vote for a principle, though I may vote alone, I cherish the reflction that my vote is never lost and mattered to me as my opinion is just that without action.