Question About PRM Intake
05-19-2004, 07:52 AM
#102
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Alex, not once in any of your responses have you addressed the points I have brought up in my rebuttals
to your anti-PRM sentiments. I just finished talking with Joe (we're both amused by the thread) and it is
clear you have gone a particular direction with your intake choice and I agree...the Comptech is a better intake for auto-X than the PRM because the enlarged
chamber from the intake tube helps throttle response
which, we can both agree, is paramount to good auto-X
runs.
If you had said that ANYWHERE in your threads, I wouldn't have hesitated to agree with you. The PRM works best at speed and outshines the Comptech at that point because of the better design of the filter
and entry point. The Comptech works better from a stop light as well because it draws air from an area
that does not wrap the filter so tightly as the PRM.
IOW, the area of delivery is much larger though in
truth, it still is drawing air (initially) from the same location. HOWEVER, at speed, the design of the PRM (shorter tube) flows FASTER and smoother than the air which is quite turbulent inside the box of the Comptech.
As I have written ad naseum, each intake that I've owned has its positive and negatives. I told Joe the best overall intake I've had on the car is the AEM V2 (better than the PRM) but it is also, not without its
own maladies. NONE of these intakes eliminate heat soak. NONE. I experienced horrible heat soak from the V2 three weeks ago when the outside temps reached 90-degrees and Nicole and I were idling in traffic. The car bogged horribly off the line. Unless I launched at 2500, you'd get that initial start and then the dreaded BOG. Even she noticed it.
As for your comments that have nothing to do with the discussion of intakes, I'll let that pass. None of it is condusive to the discussion at hand. The main reason I have chosen NOT to auto-X the S2000 is because it is my daily driver and having begun the sport back in 1985, I know myself and how I approach things. I would spend entirely WAY too much money for upgrades to the car that would make it more of a track car and LESS of a daily driver. I have driven Joe's car and it's entirely way too stiff for my liking. Strong for the track but not something I would prefer driving if I know I'm putting 1,200 miles a month on it. If you notice, most of the local members here who track their cars either own other vehicles or have access to other cars. I auto-x'd my MR2 Spyder and two Miatas in addition to a Dodge Omni GLH and an '87 Mazda RX7. I've also raced an
Alfa GTV-6 and my Bertone X1-9 and can recall the commitment of money I threw into each ride. I don't want to go through that again and once bitten by the bug, as you can attest to, it's hard to just bring a stock car with different tires to an event. You're constantly looking at how you can shave tenths. I'd rather just watch others at this stage of my life. Then again, check back with me in a year if I'm doing well with my new job...maybe I'll have the money (and room) for a specific track car. With that in mind, not sure what all this has to do with a PRM (or canards) but I've also attended two high performance driving schools (both in Italy when I was stationed there) which is why I was happy when you told me you were thinking of attending Skip Barber. You will come away even better than you already are and definitely will be humbled, as I was each time I went to school.
Be that as it may, getting back to intakes, you see things as black and white. As if to say either an intake is great or it's not. That is how you have approached the discussion. Rarely, in any aspect of automobile modifications, are results simply black and white. The Amuse is a gorgeous exhaust but it also costs $1800. The Mugen intake is bling bling but it retails for
more than $1,000. The Spugen is a good, reasonably inexpensive exhaust that outperforms systems costing five times as much but it promotes surface rust from the aluminized steel Duc chooses to use. Pros and cons my friend...in everything. Intakes are no different. If the AEM was so good, there wouldn't be 20 other offerings for the S2000, many which sell quite well. If the PRM was so good, Gerry would have retired by now.
I've tried to illustrate the positives (and yes, the negatives) to the PRM but when I read "PRM sucks" in a thread dedicated to talking about why an intake might be a choice, it does nothing to educate the guy asking the question but worse, provides no information to explain why you feel that way. EVERY intake, from a roll, sucks in engine bay air
with the exception of the down-low intakes, which unfortunately, suck in the ambient air from the heat rising from the asphalt (track temp if you will). This is what I experienced with my V2 a month ago.
At speed, the Comptech and PRM are drawing the air from the same location (wheel well). With the exception of the filter choice (PRM does not use a foam filter), there are little differences in how they receive that air. PRM believes (as do most
filter manufacturers....look at an APEXI filter) that construction which promotes a venturi effect can make for a more efficent delivery of air to the MAP (or MAF for other cars) sensor. Comptech subscribes to the notion that an enlarged diameter helps to engage throttle response. Both are correct.
Nothing discussed here (my best guess) is going to change your opinion on the PRM but when you purposely get off topic and talk about accelerometers, Tornados, auto-X challenges, etc the thread becomes less than it was and essentially is a "my intake can beat up your intake" exercise which is ironic because I don't own either of them anymore. In fact, (least from the PM's I've received) it sends a message that it's time for me to move on to other topics if nobody wants to TALK intakes. I agree.
FWIW, most testing done by automobile magazines are done using accelerometers or GPS devices. Until you have used a Tazzo or GTech Pro (similar to the one they used on Sportscar Revolution last night to test their Mugen equipped RSX-S), you really don't know what you're talking about. Car and Driver magazine has been using the Vericom for years now. It's called
science (the principles of physics). In fact, last time I checked, the Nissan Skyline GT-R comes standard with such a device in its instrument cluster.
To close, you did ask me a question.
"Since when does owning an item make you qualified enough to participate in a technical discussion about it?"
The irony is, I haven't noticed anything technical about your responses. I did get comments about the Tornado, Ritchie's loyalty to his intake (which in fact was chosen by him no doubt as a direct result of
my efforts in bringing it to the 'states) and a few comments about canards. Not sure where in your responses anything technical was discussed but if you can find it, point those sentences out to me. I must of glossed over 'em.
There IS a technical discussion of intakes that was started in the Under the Hood forum a week or two ago and it was great. A bunch of geeks all talking about the science of intakes. You will note (if you go there) that Ultimate Lurker (one of our board S2000 gurus) agreed with some of my observations on intake design and application.
To close, this isn't my first car. I've owned 24 sportscars (or sporty cars if you will) over the years and have been fiddling with exhausts and intakes since the mid 70's when my dad and I owned a '69 Z28 with nearly 500 horsepower.
Technical discussions (when they exist) can be fun but real world experience should never be discounted. I know the pros and cons of the AEM, Comptech and PRM not because I'm pulling stuff outta my ass, rather I've put thousands of miles on each intake.
One more thing, I type about 85 wpm so these "essays" actually take me about five minutes to write. This is my last. We'll agree to disagree but on that note, you are going to LOVE my new intake since the company that makes it supplies their products for the American Le Mans series, FIA GT Championship, Touring Master Cup, Supersport World Championship and yes, Formula One.
Then again, seeing this picture, probably not.
to your anti-PRM sentiments. I just finished talking with Joe (we're both amused by the thread) and it is
clear you have gone a particular direction with your intake choice and I agree...the Comptech is a better intake for auto-X than the PRM because the enlarged
chamber from the intake tube helps throttle response
which, we can both agree, is paramount to good auto-X
runs.
If you had said that ANYWHERE in your threads, I wouldn't have hesitated to agree with you. The PRM works best at speed and outshines the Comptech at that point because of the better design of the filter
and entry point. The Comptech works better from a stop light as well because it draws air from an area
that does not wrap the filter so tightly as the PRM.
IOW, the area of delivery is much larger though in
truth, it still is drawing air (initially) from the same location. HOWEVER, at speed, the design of the PRM (shorter tube) flows FASTER and smoother than the air which is quite turbulent inside the box of the Comptech.
As I have written ad naseum, each intake that I've owned has its positive and negatives. I told Joe the best overall intake I've had on the car is the AEM V2 (better than the PRM) but it is also, not without its
own maladies. NONE of these intakes eliminate heat soak. NONE. I experienced horrible heat soak from the V2 three weeks ago when the outside temps reached 90-degrees and Nicole and I were idling in traffic. The car bogged horribly off the line. Unless I launched at 2500, you'd get that initial start and then the dreaded BOG. Even she noticed it.
As for your comments that have nothing to do with the discussion of intakes, I'll let that pass. None of it is condusive to the discussion at hand. The main reason I have chosen NOT to auto-X the S2000 is because it is my daily driver and having begun the sport back in 1985, I know myself and how I approach things. I would spend entirely WAY too much money for upgrades to the car that would make it more of a track car and LESS of a daily driver. I have driven Joe's car and it's entirely way too stiff for my liking. Strong for the track but not something I would prefer driving if I know I'm putting 1,200 miles a month on it. If you notice, most of the local members here who track their cars either own other vehicles or have access to other cars. I auto-x'd my MR2 Spyder and two Miatas in addition to a Dodge Omni GLH and an '87 Mazda RX7. I've also raced an
Alfa GTV-6 and my Bertone X1-9 and can recall the commitment of money I threw into each ride. I don't want to go through that again and once bitten by the bug, as you can attest to, it's hard to just bring a stock car with different tires to an event. You're constantly looking at how you can shave tenths. I'd rather just watch others at this stage of my life. Then again, check back with me in a year if I'm doing well with my new job...maybe I'll have the money (and room) for a specific track car. With that in mind, not sure what all this has to do with a PRM (or canards) but I've also attended two high performance driving schools (both in Italy when I was stationed there) which is why I was happy when you told me you were thinking of attending Skip Barber. You will come away even better than you already are and definitely will be humbled, as I was each time I went to school.
Be that as it may, getting back to intakes, you see things as black and white. As if to say either an intake is great or it's not. That is how you have approached the discussion. Rarely, in any aspect of automobile modifications, are results simply black and white. The Amuse is a gorgeous exhaust but it also costs $1800. The Mugen intake is bling bling but it retails for
more than $1,000. The Spugen is a good, reasonably inexpensive exhaust that outperforms systems costing five times as much but it promotes surface rust from the aluminized steel Duc chooses to use. Pros and cons my friend...in everything. Intakes are no different. If the AEM was so good, there wouldn't be 20 other offerings for the S2000, many which sell quite well. If the PRM was so good, Gerry would have retired by now.
I've tried to illustrate the positives (and yes, the negatives) to the PRM but when I read "PRM sucks" in a thread dedicated to talking about why an intake might be a choice, it does nothing to educate the guy asking the question but worse, provides no information to explain why you feel that way. EVERY intake, from a roll, sucks in engine bay air
with the exception of the down-low intakes, which unfortunately, suck in the ambient air from the heat rising from the asphalt (track temp if you will). This is what I experienced with my V2 a month ago.
At speed, the Comptech and PRM are drawing the air from the same location (wheel well). With the exception of the filter choice (PRM does not use a foam filter), there are little differences in how they receive that air. PRM believes (as do most
filter manufacturers....look at an APEXI filter) that construction which promotes a venturi effect can make for a more efficent delivery of air to the MAP (or MAF for other cars) sensor. Comptech subscribes to the notion that an enlarged diameter helps to engage throttle response. Both are correct.
Nothing discussed here (my best guess) is going to change your opinion on the PRM but when you purposely get off topic and talk about accelerometers, Tornados, auto-X challenges, etc the thread becomes less than it was and essentially is a "my intake can beat up your intake" exercise which is ironic because I don't own either of them anymore. In fact, (least from the PM's I've received) it sends a message that it's time for me to move on to other topics if nobody wants to TALK intakes. I agree.
FWIW, most testing done by automobile magazines are done using accelerometers or GPS devices. Until you have used a Tazzo or GTech Pro (similar to the one they used on Sportscar Revolution last night to test their Mugen equipped RSX-S), you really don't know what you're talking about. Car and Driver magazine has been using the Vericom for years now. It's called
science (the principles of physics). In fact, last time I checked, the Nissan Skyline GT-R comes standard with such a device in its instrument cluster.
To close, you did ask me a question.
"Since when does owning an item make you qualified enough to participate in a technical discussion about it?"
The irony is, I haven't noticed anything technical about your responses. I did get comments about the Tornado, Ritchie's loyalty to his intake (which in fact was chosen by him no doubt as a direct result of
my efforts in bringing it to the 'states) and a few comments about canards. Not sure where in your responses anything technical was discussed but if you can find it, point those sentences out to me. I must of glossed over 'em.
There IS a technical discussion of intakes that was started in the Under the Hood forum a week or two ago and it was great. A bunch of geeks all talking about the science of intakes. You will note (if you go there) that Ultimate Lurker (one of our board S2000 gurus) agreed with some of my observations on intake design and application.
To close, this isn't my first car. I've owned 24 sportscars (or sporty cars if you will) over the years and have been fiddling with exhausts and intakes since the mid 70's when my dad and I owned a '69 Z28 with nearly 500 horsepower.
Technical discussions (when they exist) can be fun but real world experience should never be discounted. I know the pros and cons of the AEM, Comptech and PRM not because I'm pulling stuff outta my ass, rather I've put thousands of miles on each intake.
One more thing, I type about 85 wpm so these "essays" actually take me about five minutes to write. This is my last. We'll agree to disagree but on that note, you are going to LOVE my new intake since the company that makes it supplies their products for the American Le Mans series, FIA GT Championship, Touring Master Cup, Supersport World Championship and yes, Formula One.
Then again, seeing this picture, probably not.
05-19-2004, 11:29 AM
#108
Registered User
Oh shit it's past 3 P.M. I started reading at 8 A.M. when I got to my office but ZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZ. As soon as I get the money I will be going to all kinds of driving schools also 
, but Im poor for now so I'll learn at my own paste. Was that the post about or was it the part where I fell asleep? ah enough let me go finish reading...........
, but Im poor for now so I'll learn at my own paste. Was that the post about or was it the part where I fell asleep? ah enough let me go finish reading...........