Water Spots, Zaino, and what next?
02-26-2003, 10:06 AM
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Water Spots, Zaino, and what next?
I just got my new black S. Sometime during transit to me, it had something nasty drip on it, possibly hard water with salt in Boston, who knows.
I washed it with Dawn first thing after I took delivery from the transport truck, clayed it, and then spent some time trying to get these damn water spots off. I tried vinegar, tar & bug remover, and swirl remover. Nothing seemed to work, and I didn't want to keep grinding over these spots, creating swirl marks.
Because it was buck naked after the Dawn and claybar, I went ahead and applied Z1 and one coat of Z2 just to protect it.
So, now my question is: I think it's going to require a detailer buffing the car to get those spots out. Does anyone have any other suggestions before I resort to that? I also figure that if I try anything else, it might not work because the Zaino is now on there, creating a layer between the actual water spots and whatever I'm using to remove them.
Any input would be appreciated... I've searched for water spots here, but I feel like I've tried most of the approaches suggested.
I washed it with Dawn first thing after I took delivery from the transport truck, clayed it, and then spent some time trying to get these damn water spots off. I tried vinegar, tar & bug remover, and swirl remover. Nothing seemed to work, and I didn't want to keep grinding over these spots, creating swirl marks.
Because it was buck naked after the Dawn and claybar, I went ahead and applied Z1 and one coat of Z2 just to protect it.
So, now my question is: I think it's going to require a detailer buffing the car to get those spots out. Does anyone have any other suggestions before I resort to that? I also figure that if I try anything else, it might not work because the Zaino is now on there, creating a layer between the actual water spots and whatever I'm using to remove them.
Any input would be appreciated... I've searched for water spots here, but I feel like I've tried most of the approaches suggested.
02-26-2003, 10:26 AM
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Why don't you e-mail Sal Zaino, wet@zainobros.com, and ask him. He will be more than glad to offer a suggestion. Post his reply here if you think about it.
02-26-2003, 11:28 AM
#3
sounds to me like your next step is to polish and then zaino after that... more good info at:
http://properautocare.com/polish.html
" Many people assume that waxing and polishing are synonymous. In fact, they are two different processes. Polishing deep cleans the paint, removes oxidation, old wax & minor swirls, and rejuvenates the top paint layer. It prepares the surface for waxing and insures a uniform, high-gloss shine."
Compound, polish, glaze.
What's the difference?
"The difference between compounds, polishes and glazes can best be described as the amount of cleaning power or abrasiveness in the product. The most abrasive products are called compounds. These products are designed to remove (abrade away) a portion of the top paint or clear coat layer which contain sanding swirls, scratches, water spots or blemishes. They are available in many different grades of abrasiveness or "cut" depending on the severity of the problem to be corrected. Compounds are best used with a circular polisher but can produce acceptable results with dual-action polishers if the defect is minor. Compounds typically leave the surface dull. This surface dullness is called haze or compounding lines and is removed by polishing with increasingly less abrasive polishes. Unfortunately, there is no industry standard to quantify when a "polish" becomes a "compound" and one manufacturer's polish may have the same cutting ability (abrasiveness) as another manufacturer's compound. "
http://properautocare.com/polish.html
" Many people assume that waxing and polishing are synonymous. In fact, they are two different processes. Polishing deep cleans the paint, removes oxidation, old wax & minor swirls, and rejuvenates the top paint layer. It prepares the surface for waxing and insures a uniform, high-gloss shine."
Compound, polish, glaze.
What's the difference?
"The difference between compounds, polishes and glazes can best be described as the amount of cleaning power or abrasiveness in the product. The most abrasive products are called compounds. These products are designed to remove (abrade away) a portion of the top paint or clear coat layer which contain sanding swirls, scratches, water spots or blemishes. They are available in many different grades of abrasiveness or "cut" depending on the severity of the problem to be corrected. Compounds are best used with a circular polisher but can produce acceptable results with dual-action polishers if the defect is minor. Compounds typically leave the surface dull. This surface dullness is called haze or compounding lines and is removed by polishing with increasingly less abrasive polishes. Unfortunately, there is no industry standard to quantify when a "polish" becomes a "compound" and one manufacturer's polish may have the same cutting ability (abrasiveness) as another manufacturer's compound. "
02-26-2003, 12:42 PM
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STreece, thanks for the advice. I emailed Sal at Zaino and here's his reply:
Most 'fresh' mineral deposits (water spotting, acid rain, etc.) can be removed with Z-7 Show Car Wash or Z-6 Gloss Enhancer spray. If they have been on the car for a while and Z-6 or Z-7 will not remove them. Use household white vinegar full strength. This is acetic acid and will loosen and remove the mineral deposits and not harm the paint surface. Most of the time, the water spot etching you see is simply the hardened mineral deposit, giving the illusion of etching into the paint. Believe me, when these mineral deposits harden. They become really tough and hard to remove. The trick is to not give them a chance to harden.
If the above fails, then use the Z-18 ClayBar to remove them....
If those water spots on your car have been there for a while. They might be already etched into the clear coat. If Z-18 ClayBar will not remove them. Then what you are seeing is an etched spot in the paint surface.
Although, I am totally against using an abrasive product on todays clear coated finishes. It seems like, in your specific situation, you don't have a choice. I would try 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirl Mark Remover part #39009 by hand, not by machine, using very light pressure. This should do
the trick. Be careful when doing this and only do the water spot areas, as the 3M is abrasive and will remove paint material. Don't forget to reapply Z-5 or Z-2 as the 3M products will remove any polish.
If you opt to go with the 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze... see following tips...
3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze use By hand:
Simply apply a small amount (about the size of a quarter) to a cotton diaper or piece of cotton towel and rub back and forth into about 1' X 1' section using light to medium pressure until it starts to dry out. Then take a second towel and lightly rub back and forth until the polish residue disappears and the gloss comes up. If there are still some swirls visible you can repeat this step until they are minimal. I prefer using a less aggressive product a couple times instead of using a more aggressive product once. After you are done you can wash with Z-7 and apply Z-5.
Hope this helps. Need more advice call me.--
Thank You,
Sal Zaino
(732)833-8800
http://www.zainobros.com
Most 'fresh' mineral deposits (water spotting, acid rain, etc.) can be removed with Z-7 Show Car Wash or Z-6 Gloss Enhancer spray. If they have been on the car for a while and Z-6 or Z-7 will not remove them. Use household white vinegar full strength. This is acetic acid and will loosen and remove the mineral deposits and not harm the paint surface. Most of the time, the water spot etching you see is simply the hardened mineral deposit, giving the illusion of etching into the paint. Believe me, when these mineral deposits harden. They become really tough and hard to remove. The trick is to not give them a chance to harden.
If the above fails, then use the Z-18 ClayBar to remove them....
If those water spots on your car have been there for a while. They might be already etched into the clear coat. If Z-18 ClayBar will not remove them. Then what you are seeing is an etched spot in the paint surface.
Although, I am totally against using an abrasive product on todays clear coated finishes. It seems like, in your specific situation, you don't have a choice. I would try 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirl Mark Remover part #39009 by hand, not by machine, using very light pressure. This should do
the trick. Be careful when doing this and only do the water spot areas, as the 3M is abrasive and will remove paint material. Don't forget to reapply Z-5 or Z-2 as the 3M products will remove any polish.
If you opt to go with the 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze... see following tips...
3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze use By hand:
Simply apply a small amount (about the size of a quarter) to a cotton diaper or piece of cotton towel and rub back and forth into about 1' X 1' section using light to medium pressure until it starts to dry out. Then take a second towel and lightly rub back and forth until the polish residue disappears and the gloss comes up. If there are still some swirls visible you can repeat this step until they are minimal. I prefer using a less aggressive product a couple times instead of using a more aggressive product once. After you are done you can wash with Z-7 and apply Z-5.
Hope this helps. Need more advice call me.--
Thank You,
Sal Zaino
(732)833-8800
http://www.zainobros.com
02-27-2003, 08:55 AM
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Ok, a couple more questions ... 1. Where can I find the 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze? ... and 2. I know an extremely excellent detail shop, do you think I would be better off having them do this buffing? I'm just afraid that my working on these spots will create more fine scratches, which will just look as bad as the spots. I am paranoid about how much rubbing, pressure, etc. to apply. I don't mind spending the $$$ to get her in primo shape before starting my Zaino layering.
02-27-2003, 11:01 AM
#7
the product that sal referred to is actually known as 3M Perfect-It Swirl Mark Remover (part number is the same anyway).
http://store.yahoo.com/classic-motoring/3m...perswirmar.html
my opinion- i would suggest doing it yourself... the shop might not care how much of your clear coat they take down, but you do! (you would more likely be more conservative)- just follow the instructions. the swirl remover is easy to use- and if you havent used a machine before, i suggest you apply and remove by hand.
http://store.yahoo.com/classic-motoring/3m...perswirmar.html
my opinion- i would suggest doing it yourself... the shop might not care how much of your clear coat they take down, but you do! (you would more likely be more conservative)- just follow the instructions. the swirl remover is easy to use- and if you havent used a machine before, i suggest you apply and remove by hand.
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02-27-2003, 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by wanabe
...my opinion- i would suggest doing it yourself...
...my opinion- i would suggest doing it yourself...
02-27-2003, 01:12 PM
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mybad- it is impossible to tell whether they take your clear all the way down into the paint or not...
only the operator knows for sure. so their liability doesnt mean much in this case.
the 3m is very easy to use, and not likely to cause problems. my 17 year old daughter used the 3m swirl remover on her black car (a 1993 mazda) and it looked like new (she had no detailing experience at all). you might have used a compound with a high grit component when you had problems, or you might have applied too much product...
i agree that personal comfort is important, but i would prefer to know what has been done to my car (and i do recognize that it is a personal decision).
only the operator knows for sure. so their liability doesnt mean much in this case.
the 3m is very easy to use, and not likely to cause problems. my 17 year old daughter used the 3m swirl remover on her black car (a 1993 mazda) and it looked like new (she had no detailing experience at all). you might have used a compound with a high grit component when you had problems, or you might have applied too much product...
i agree that personal comfort is important, but i would prefer to know what has been done to my car (and i do recognize that it is a personal decision).
02-27-2003, 03:34 PM
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Well, I'll grant you that I'd never done it before and could have used the wrong product. That experience has made me gun-shy.
For those who have confidence that they can do it right, go for it.
For those who have confidence that they can do it right, go for it.