Morris

There are so many issues floating here, but I want to comment on one thing said, in reference to Bush's national guard service.
I have not seen or read anywhere that Bush was really AWOL. Yes I think he probably got favors others didn't, but was he ever charged, brought up on any articles, reprimanded, or court marshalled for skipping duty? Remember he was a junior officer, no stars on his collar.
And why would what he did be called cushy? It's not easy getting a pilots license (I have one) and to be able to fly a complex military jet takes hundreds of hours (and skill). And most important, every time you go up in a military jet you are taking your life in your hands. It's dangerous. Then add the drills, aerobatics, close flying, war simulations that all military fighter pilots go through, I can't conceive of all that ever being called cushy, except by the uninformed.
Please give him his due. He may not have been shot at, but he did serve, adn he did risk his life for his country.

cordycord

I'm getting my pilot's license now, and even flying a Piper 140 ain't easy.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselect...sh-troops_x.htm

USA Today--troops in survey back Bush 4 to 1 over Kerry. I'm not very hip on polls, but it backs up the anecdotal evidence I see here in San Clemente, living next to Camp Pendleton. Bottom line, if you don't have a valid arguement, you look silly trying to spin the truth.

dean

I don't believe that anyone is disputing the numbers given for active members of the military. It was the distribution of veterans that was misrepresented.

Dean

mikegarrison

The only things really known are that he lost his wings due to failure to report for a physical and that he was allowed to leave his duty to go work on a political campaign in the next state. I never said he was AWOL.

But come on! Yes piloting is not as safe as sitting at home on the couch, but being in the National Guard was a lot more safe than being in the Air Force. What was the half-life over there, something like 10 missions or so?

I don't really care so much about him finding some way to get out of the war. My own dad found a way (full time student, then married with kids). What I care about is that he is portraying himself as a warrior tough guy at the same time as he is sliming people who actually served and bled.

As for the "he did serve" bit, well if he had been in the Guard during a time of peace I could allow that argument. But at a time when the Guard was a well-known method of avoiding overseas service (if you had the pull to get into it), it just doesn't fly. Kind of like Bush when he was being excused from his service or skipping his flight physical.

SilverKnight

thanks for the kind words Dean, glad to hear ya like me Let me reply in kind. From your posts and attitude on this board, I completely have no respect for you frankly. Sure there are other members on this thread I disagree with but I still respect them. You on the otherhand...........
I really hope your offline personality is quite different. Otherwise I feel sorry for whoever is around you.

dean

Good for you, now we finally agree on something - our opinions of each other are almost identical. From your posts in this thread, I can only shake my head in disbelief at your overwhelming lack of knowledge in a topic in which you profess to have an opinion. Without exception, every other person in this thread has formed an educated opinion based on well supported facts as he/she interprets them, not the sophomoric, misinformed, and fallacious prattle that you seem to be so fond of tossing randomly into the discussion then miserably failing to support. For those folks and their opinions I have nothing but respect, while I have little patience for the utter nonsense that you've posted here. If I thought you were an example of the average voter, I would lose all hope for the American political system.
Feel free to hit the ignore button or take this discussion to PM at anytime.

Dean

dean

Have I missed something? I didn't think Bush was addressing Kerry's service record. I'm sure that his camp is beside itself with glee over the swift boat vet ads, but I don't recall the Republicans addressing this issue themselves in the media, at least overtly.

Dean

brantshali

This being the key. While I admit that the Republican Party (and GWB specifically) is not legally in control of, nor has and directly link to, the Swift Boat Veterans for Something They Pretend Resembles the Truth, I think they could have taken a much stronger stand against such ads.

By that same token, however, I think the Kerry camp has also "allowed" people speaking on their behalf to make some interesting twists of reality.

In short, I'm disappointed at both sides in this "fight", but I can't say I'm surprised that all tools are being used (even dirty ones) in this close race.

drewchie

Dean, you are correct, but the people behind the swift boat ads (*as well as tonight's Sinclair infomercial) are close friends and supporters of Dubya. Do you think they're running those ads against his will? Dubya's a "nice guy". He would NEVER say mean stuff like that. Why should he? He's got all those friends to say it for him.

BTW: SilverKnight, personal attacks are not permitted on this site and are a strict violation of the rules. While Dean's response was not entirely appropriate either, it was a response to an extremely rude personal assault. You are a guest on this forum; you don't behave like a very polite one.

You are welcome to your opinions; you are not welcome to post insults towards respected members of this forum (nor anyone else for that matter) Your Silverstone lip thread, which you keep bumping to the top despite the irritated posts of members asking you not to, is just another example of your impolite behavior.

Do you think you could possibly start behaving yourself? We might have a little respect for your opinions. (Spelling does count)

Charlie's just as misdirected as you, but we all love him.

*Added later...

I work near MTV out here, and there was this huge protest there today. On one street corner were all the Kerry supporters trading loud insults with the Bushies on the opposing corner. When did it all turn so mean? I remember when Republicans and Democrats didn't necessarily have to hate each other.

That said

dean

I never took the SWB ads seriously when they came out as others did. Whenever "facts" remain hidden for nearly forty years only to be "uncovered" at such an inopportune time for a candidate, my BS meter starts to scream. As for Bush's service record, I really don't care one way or the other. If I had an influential father, I might have done much the same to avoid going to Nam. In either case, I don't see these issues as being relevant.
I have to agree with you and Brant that this is a very ugly campaign. I don't recall even the Johnson-Goldwater campaign being this nasty. Two questions trouble me about the hatred that I've witnessed during this election process, and I don't believe that either has a quick or easy answer:

1. How did we as a country get to this dismal point in the three short years since the great sense of unity and common purpose that we experienced immediately following 9/11?

2. When the election is over, I have no doubt that the loser's concession speech is going to include telling the American public that we must all unite behind the president. How can either one of the candidates expect us to comply when such abysmal examples have been set for us?

Dean