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Is Technology Dividing America

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Old 03-29-2018 | 10:12 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by engifineer
That singularity is the point at which we cannot predict the future outcome of the technology, because it has become smarter than us. That is closer than many think.
This is all true, but the salient point is that humans and technology merge within this evolution. One of the dangers of adjusting to this notion is keeping technology in one silo, and humanity in another. In terms of how close we are, you're dead on. We are at the point where what is machine-learned is confused with a human, and vice-versa. Can we sort it out? Yeah, mostly. . . this week.

Also think about the fact that virtually everything you can find in a sci fi movie today will be reality in 20 years ... that is the going rate (look at sci fi movies from 20-30 years ago ...). That means the bad as well as the good.

My theory is this. The only thing separating a good writer from an engineer is the education they decide to pursue. They both thrive on creativity and looking at all the what if scenarios. So it is not a surprise that what you see now in sci fi movies will be reality 20 years from now. And the bad outcomes go along with that. A lot of the issues we deal with today were found in the dystopian futures of many fiction books of the past (1984!). There is no reason to think that it will not keep going that way. We treat the doomsday movies about technology as just fun fiction, but there is no reason to believe it wont come true. It has so far.
Correlation is not causation. Do machines learn based on their inputs? Absolutely. However, most of the dystopian novels and movies I've consumed, even those that are set in a post-singularity environment, are based upon much more simple themes and concepts than the complexity of "technology run amok." Unfortunately again, not to sound ridiculous and obtuse (too late?), but the core values we could leverage to prevent these dystopian scenarios really run afoul of what we can digest politically, let alone socially.

We have the technology, and the know-how to steer things in a much more favorable direction, but we don't have the want.
Old 03-29-2018 | 12:02 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by UnkieTrunkie
I was trying to be succinct.
I had to look that up. I should keep my thoughts to myself. I apologize.

Sorry but talking over the heads of the audience is honestly just a pet peeve of mine. Its a carry-over from my days in management at work when one of the people I used to have to work with would leave the room and everyone left would say, What the hell did he just say? And not a single person in the room knew.
Old 03-29-2018 | 12:29 PM
  #43  
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When it comes to doomsday forecasts, nothing changes. For example, here's a short quote about motor racing, "The curse of commercialization is the ruin of sport and the degeneracy of motor racing as a sport is due to the financial issues now involved." Really? That was said in 1905. And is still being said today.

Like Nostradamus predictions, sooner or later some of it will actually happen but it doesn't keep me from sleeping at night.

There was an interesting show on NPR radio today that discussed how YouTube works, how they track you, how they bait you in to spending time in some rabbit hole, etc. Of course its all data driven as you might expect. Some of the stuff just does not bother me much; maybe it should. But I think back in college when I took a personality test. Within just a few pages they produced a report that was totally dead on. Its just a dead on today as it was then. I realize no one was using that to try to manipulate me, etc. but they sure knew me as well as I know myself.

As a footnote, I just got my annual notice for AARP wishing me a happy birthday. Clearly they know my birthday and I've never joined although I've got their requests for over 20 years.

Last edited by dlq04; 03-29-2018 at 12:57 PM.
Old 03-29-2018 | 12:33 PM
  #44  
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Okay, back to the discussion of technology dividing the nation. Having held back on this until now, it's my view that it's not technology that's dividing the nation, it's our educational systems. I say systems vs system because I'm going to blame state government. The sample disclosure below, I believe when you look at College and Advanced degrees, is self explanatory.

Technology High Employment States
Colorado......................High School Grad 90.7% College Grad 38.1% Advanced Degree 14%
New York.....................High School Grad 85.6% College Grad 34.2% Advanced Degree 14.8%
California.....................High School Grad 79.8% College Grad 31.4% Advanced Degree 11.6%
Massachusetts..............High School Grad 89.8% College Grad 40.5% Advanced Degree 17.7%

Technology Low Employment States
West Virginia..............High School Grad 85.0% College Grad 19.2% Advanced Degree 7.4%
Mississippi.................High School Grad 82.3% College Grad 20.7% Advanced Degree 7.7%
Louisiana...................High School Grad 83.4% College Grad 22.5% Advanced Degree 7.7%
Oklahoma..................High School Grad 86.9% College Grad 24.1% Advanced Degree 8.0%
Old 03-29-2018 | 12:44 PM
  #45  
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There has always been pockets of have and have nots - education is no different and that is really sad. But, I'm not sure how to read those stats. Does that mean people born in Massachusetts advanced more; not likely. It just means people went to higher end schools that were located in that state because they offered high tech courses.
Old 03-29-2018 | 11:01 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by dlq04
There has always been pockets of have and have nots - education is no different and that is really sad. But, I'm not sure how to read those stats. Does that mean people born in Massachusetts advanced more; not likely. It just means people went to higher end schools that were located in that state because they offered high tech courses.

Again, correlation is not causation. My dear state of California has the lowest high school graduation rate of the sample, and has race-to-the-bottom per pupil funding in the public schools. If tech jobs were the cause, then we'd have better graduation rates from high school, college, and post-grad schools.

Also, a turn on what dlq is pointing out: most tech firms are parked near schools that do the research. Good research attracts people that want to either participate in, or fund, more good research; so there's a multiplying effect and a virtuous cycle. So, again, since we want to dance around politics ever-so-gingerly: is it the funding for the tech research that creates the jobs, or do the jobs create the funding for the research?
Old 03-29-2018 | 11:58 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by dlq04
It just means people went to higher end schools that were located in that state because they offered high tech courses.
What are "higher end schools"?

I was bragging to a teacher in a public school system in MA., Lynnfield, exactly, about my small inner-city high school having achieved better than 95% graduate college acceptance for the 7th year in a row when she took out my knees with the 100% graduate college acceptance for the third year in a row from her school. Public school is not, in my view, a "higher end school".
Old 03-30-2018 | 03:49 AM
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My opinion is that the tech divide discussed in the article is just the latest manifestation of decades of human migration to cities that have opportunity. The students at MIT come from all over the country. Then they graduate and go where the opportunities are. If the students like this area, they tend to look for opportunities here. But many don't and go elsewhere. It makes sense that a lot of companies have grown up around these schools. Some percentage of the graduates liked the area and some percentage of those students found ways to stay here. And OMG, some of them started their own businesses instead of finding "jobs."

In my experience, young people like "forward looking" (code for a political label) communities. This is just a generalization, of course, but we are trying to avoid politics here. So combine the good schools with the right local attitude and some sort of local attractions, be they historic, cultural or geographic (like an ocean) and smart young people show up and try to find ways to stay. The fact that this is where all the tech happens is just the natural result of a process that started decades ago.
Old 03-30-2018 | 01:21 PM
  #49  
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Got this today from PA Jerry, seems a good place to plant it.

GOOGLE PIZZA CALLER: Is this Gordon's Pizza?

GOOGLE: No sir, it's Google Pizza.

CALLER: I must have dialled a wrong number. Sorry.

GOOGLE: No sir, Google bought Gordon’s Pizza last month.

CALLER: OK.. I would like to order a pizza.

GOOGLE: Do you want your usual, sir?

CALLER: My usual? You know me?

GOOGLE: According to our caller ID data sheet, the last 12 times you called you ordered an extra-large pizza with three cheeses, sausage, pepperoni, mushrooms and meatballs on a thick crust.

CALLER: OK! That’s what I want ...

GOOGLE:
May I suggest that this time you order a pizza with ricotta, arugula, sun-dried tomatoes and olives on a whole wheat gluten free thin crust?

CALLER: What? I detest vegetables.

GOOGLE: Your cholesterol is not good, sir.

CALLER: How the hell do you know?

GOOGLE:

Well, we cross-referenced your home phone number with your medical records.

We have the result of your blood tests for the last 7 years.

CALLER: Okay, but I do not want your rotten vegetable pizza! I already take

medication for my cholesterol.

GOOGLE: Excuse me sir, but you have not taken your medication regularly.

According to our database, you only purchased a box of 30 cholesterol

tablets once, at Drug RX Network, 4 months ago.

CALLER: I bought more from another drugstore.

GOOGLE: That doesn’t show on your credit card statement.

CALLER: I paid in cash.

GOOGLE: But you did not withdraw enough cash according to your bank statement.

CALLER : I have other sources of cash.

GOOGLE: That doesn’t show on your last tax return unless you bought them using an

undeclared income source, which is against the law.

CALLER: WHAT THE HELL?

GOOGLE: I'm sorry, sir, we use such information only with the sole intention of helping you.

CALLER: Enough already! I'm sick to death of Google, Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp and all the others. I'm going to an island without internet, cable TV,

where there is no cell phone service and no one to watch me or spy on me

GOOGLE: I understand sir, but you need to renew your passport first. It expired 6 weeks ago...
Old 04-03-2018 | 01:30 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by hecash
Okay, back to the discussion of technology dividing the nation. Having held back on this until now, it's my view that it's not technology that's dividing the nation, it's our educational systems. I say systems vs system because I'm going to blame state government. The sample disclosure below, I believe when you look at College and Advanced degrees, is self explanatory.

Technology High Employment States
Colorado......................High School Grad 90.7% College Grad 38.1% Advanced Degree 14%
New York.....................High School Grad 85.6% College Grad 34.2% Advanced Degree 14.8%
California.....................High School Grad 79.8% College Grad 31.4% Advanced Degree 11.6%
Massachusetts..............High School Grad 89.8% College Grad 40.5% Advanced Degree 17.7%

Technology Low Employment States
West Virginia..............High School Grad 85.0% College Grad 19.2% Advanced Degree 7.4%
Mississippi.................High School Grad 82.3% College Grad 20.7% Advanced Degree 7.7%
Louisiana...................High School Grad 83.4% College Grad 22.5% Advanced Degree 7.7%
Oklahoma..................High School Grad 86.9% College Grad 24.1% Advanced Degree 8.0%
People go to college in places that have schools that support their interests. If a school in a state focuses on robotics, for example, kids that want to go into that field are prone to relocate and go to school there. Since the schools are there, the companies working in robotics tend to migrate there, so those kids stay in that state and get those jobs. So it is very, very hard to compare how many college grads are in a state vs how many hs graduates, since I expect they are looking at current residents, not tracking the data back to people that USED to live in that state and relocated (if I am wrong that may change my opinion a bit).

Also, you have people like me, that dropped out of HS, went back and got a BS with honors, then a Masters with honors. My HS experience had nothing to do with the quality of my school and more to me being an idiot But I would not count as part of that 8% in Oklahoma most likely since I went to college in KS. So if I understand the statistics, I would have increased the KS advanced degree stat but did not go to HS in KS.

So while we do need to focus more on our schools, I would guess that less than half of students success is due to quality of schools and more of it is due to the students attitude, motivation, mental health and parental support.

I do feel though that our high schools should scrap a LOT of the classes they make kids take and start replacing them with vocational classes. If the best your kids can do for a job out of HS is flipping a burger, your schools have failed. I was blessed that during HS votech was free and we could replace part of the day at school with votech. So while I was a dummy and did not finish HS, after dropping out I was wiring houses for a living instead of flipping burgers. After pulling my head out and deciding on college, it was due to me loving electrical work and deciding to go into engineering. I may not have gone to college otherwise, because I could not see how it was smart to go into debt without even knowing what I wanted for a career. There are a lot of skills that HS kids could be taught in a vocational school that not only get them real jobs right out of school, but many times spur their interest in other fields should they decide upon college. Some schools have gotten good about this, but we have a ways to go.


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