Sometimes I get so sick of the media
11-09-2011, 03:49 PM
#51
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Joe Paterno did not participate in the abuse. If anything he has been an inspiration and role model for thousands of students both national and international. As he said in hindsight perhaps he should have done more, but I personally think the positive influence he has had is far-reaching and this is a lesson to everyone that looks up to people as role models - humans are inherently fallible. It could be someone on this forum tomorrow.
11-09-2011, 03:52 PM
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I've been away from the TV for about an hour and the Penn State board was to meet at 7 -- so I don't know much beyond what was reported earlier.
But I have worked at big, bureaucratic universities for some years, public ones like Penn State, so I have a good idea of what's going on there.
And what that is amounts to slow, elephantine data-gathering and discussion. The board of regents (or "directors" or whatever they're called) has to conduct their meetings in public, and even with a tight agenda, there's a wide variety of opinions that must be heard. Even if someone (Paterno, the university president, anyone) wanted to strike swiftly and decisively, the process would mire them in gumbo mud.
It's just the way that big universities work. Even in times of crisis (including those involving imminent emergencies -- refer to the VA Tech shootings), things move slowly.
In this case, it's pretty clear that Sandusky, the perp, should be put into the general prisoner population at someplace like Joliet so that matters can take their course. The other two guys, the athletics director and the VP for finance or whatever, who clearly (according to the indictment) obstructed the investigation, deserve something less nasty, such as castration.
The coach, well, that's less clear. Val is right about university reporting rules. Still, it's hard to understand why and how he didn't take a stronger stand nine years ago. At that time, I guess he was age 75. Now he's 84.
The big question is: should he be allowed to retire according to his new plan? Or should he be put out to pasture immediately? HPH
But I have worked at big, bureaucratic universities for some years, public ones like Penn State, so I have a good idea of what's going on there.
And what that is amounts to slow, elephantine data-gathering and discussion. The board of regents (or "directors" or whatever they're called) has to conduct their meetings in public, and even with a tight agenda, there's a wide variety of opinions that must be heard. Even if someone (Paterno, the university president, anyone) wanted to strike swiftly and decisively, the process would mire them in gumbo mud.
It's just the way that big universities work. Even in times of crisis (including those involving imminent emergencies -- refer to the VA Tech shootings), things move slowly.
In this case, it's pretty clear that Sandusky, the perp, should be put into the general prisoner population at someplace like Joliet so that matters can take their course. The other two guys, the athletics director and the VP for finance or whatever, who clearly (according to the indictment) obstructed the investigation, deserve something less nasty, such as castration.
The coach, well, that's less clear. Val is right about university reporting rules. Still, it's hard to understand why and how he didn't take a stronger stand nine years ago. At that time, I guess he was age 75. Now he's 84.
The big question is: should he be allowed to retire according to his new plan? Or should he be put out to pasture immediately? HPH
11-09-2011, 04:27 PM
#53
Former Moderator
Originally Posted by aashish2' timestamp='1320880446' post='21143379
Joe Paterno did not participate in the abuse. If anything he has been an inspiration and role model for thousands of students both national and international. As he said in hindsight perhaps he should have done more, but I personally think the positive influence he has had is far-reaching and this is a lesson to everyone that looks up to people as role models - humans are inherently fallible. It could be someone on this forum tomorrow.
2. And who on this forum do you think is this horribly fallible?
Answering the questions you asked:
1. In such a situation I'd do what I was taught and equipped to do based on my knowledge, background, experience and a whole host of other factors. I can't and won't give you an accurate answer because I cant predict my response and reaction. Maybe I'll take a Louisville Slugger or a Symonds Tusker to the perp or maybe I'll just quit because I can't do a damn thing about it or silently suffer through it. If you or Lainey can give an accurate answer then you are better people than I am (which you probably are, but thats another story
).2. I was merely suggesting that anyone on here could be in the same situation as Paterno and may not appear to have done much in a similar situation in the eyes of the public. Not attacking or suggesting any specific person on here. I hope that clarifies things.
Look at genocides in Rwanda or Bosnia and other humanitarian crises elsewhere in the world. There is a peace keeping force sent by the UN, but their rules of engagement are so strictly defined that they can't bring themselves to stop an atrocity as much as they want to. This situation is similar to that and which is why I've said in my earlier posts that organizations need to have a proper mechanism for reporting and acting on abuse. Clearly PSU and Paterno were found wanting but to somehow vilify Paterno is wrong IMHO.
11-09-2011, 04:48 PM
#54
Thread Starter
Lainey, I understand your disgust with sex perverts. I share it.
For the moment, the media circus seems to be in charge. The media can’t wait to lynch Joe and now the university president. But, it will be a long time before any of us know what took place and why with respect to this crime. If I just listened to the sound bites I would want to lynch him as well.
The code of conduct of large institutions is designed to minimize damage and fallout when something bad happens. As Val and Dr Cloud pointed out, there is protocol that must be followed. Believe it or not, more times than not it is for good valid reasons. Large institutions are easy targets for false claims with no grounds.
As for Joe, it might have been as simple as believing his friend was not capable of these sins. None-the-less he passed the report up and carried on. I don’t know, you don’t know, and the media sure doesn’t know but like a lynching, they want it now.
For the moment, the media circus seems to be in charge. The media can’t wait to lynch Joe and now the university president. But, it will be a long time before any of us know what took place and why with respect to this crime. If I just listened to the sound bites I would want to lynch him as well.
The code of conduct of large institutions is designed to minimize damage and fallout when something bad happens. As Val and Dr Cloud pointed out, there is protocol that must be followed. Believe it or not, more times than not it is for good valid reasons. Large institutions are easy targets for false claims with no grounds.
As for Joe, it might have been as simple as believing his friend was not capable of these sins. None-the-less he passed the report up and carried on. I don’t know, you don’t know, and the media sure doesn’t know but like a lynching, they want it now.
11-09-2011, 04:59 PM
#55
I hear you, Dave, and I'm sure we all share the disgust of sexual perverts. I understand your points, as well as the points others have made regarding protocol, large organizations and our litigious society.
I'm still having a lot of difficulty with the fact that it even if protocol was followed, it does appear nothing was reported to authorities. I don't know how anyone can carry on with information like that, and not feel the need to follow through.
I'm still having a lot of difficulty with the fact that it even if protocol was followed, it does appear nothing was reported to authorities. I don't know how anyone can carry on with information like that, and not feel the need to follow through.
11-09-2011, 05:00 PM
#56
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...Answering the questions you asked:
1. In such a situation I'd do what I was taught and equipped to do based on my knowledge, background, experience and a whole host of other factors. I can't and won't give you an accurate answer because I cant predict my response and reaction. Maybe I'll take a Louisville Slugger or a Symonds Tusker to the perp or maybe I'll just quit because I can't do a damn thing about it or silently suffer through it. If you or Lainey can give an accurate answer then you are better people than I am (which you probably are, but thats another story ).
2. I was merely suggesting that anyone on here could be in the same situation as Paterno and may not appear to have done much in a similar situation in the eyes of the public. Not attacking or suggesting any specific person on here. I hope that clarifies things.
Look at genocides in Rwanda or Bosnia and other humanitarian crises elsewhere in the world. There is a peace keeping force sent by the UN, but their rules of engagement are so strictly defined that they can't bring themselves to stop an atrocity as much as they want to. This situation is similar to that and which is why I've said in my earlier posts that organizations need to have a proper mechanism for reporting and acting on abuse. Clearly PSU and Paterno were found wanting but to somehow vilify Paterno is wrong IMHO.
1. In such a situation I'd do what I was taught and equipped to do based on my knowledge, background, experience and a whole host of other factors. I can't and won't give you an accurate answer because I cant predict my response and reaction. Maybe I'll take a Louisville Slugger or a Symonds Tusker to the perp or maybe I'll just quit because I can't do a damn thing about it or silently suffer through it. If you or Lainey can give an accurate answer then you are better people than I am (which you probably are, but thats another story
).2. I was merely suggesting that anyone on here could be in the same situation as Paterno and may not appear to have done much in a similar situation in the eyes of the public. Not attacking or suggesting any specific person on here. I hope that clarifies things.
Look at genocides in Rwanda or Bosnia and other humanitarian crises elsewhere in the world. There is a peace keeping force sent by the UN, but their rules of engagement are so strictly defined that they can't bring themselves to stop an atrocity as much as they want to. This situation is similar to that and which is why I've said in my earlier posts that organizations need to have a proper mechanism for reporting and acting on abuse. Clearly PSU and Paterno were found wanting but to somehow vilify Paterno is wrong IMHO.
But I don't see how anything in in Rwanda or Bosnia has any bearing on the topic at hand unless we're including child sexual abuse among the UN's other failings to address.
I can tell you this:
Had I seen Sandusky's conduct first hand one of us would have received a major ass whipping to determine if it would continue. Then I would have called the state police regardless of the outcome.
Had I been Joe Paterno and heard it from a witness I would have had the same inclination but would have probably taken my age into account and called the state police.
But that's just me.
11-09-2011, 06:39 PM
#57
Former Moderator
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sp...-state.html?hp
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Graham B. Spanier, one of the longest-serving and highest-paid university presidents in the nation, who has helped raise the academic profile of Penn State during his tenure, stepped down Wednesday night in the wake of a sexual-abuse scandal involving a prominent former assistant football coach and the university’s failure to act to halt further harm.
Spanier’s departure came as the university’s Board of Trustees also ended the 84-year-old Joe Paterno’s career, denying him his wish to finish out the season, his 46th as the head football coach and his 62nd over all at the school.
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Graham B. Spanier, one of the longest-serving and highest-paid university presidents in the nation, who has helped raise the academic profile of Penn State during his tenure, stepped down Wednesday night in the wake of a sexual-abuse scandal involving a prominent former assistant football coach and the university’s failure to act to halt further harm.
Spanier’s departure came as the university’s Board of Trustees also ended the 84-year-old Joe Paterno’s career, denying him his wish to finish out the season, his 46th as the head football coach and his 62nd over all at the school.
11-09-2011, 07:31 PM
#58
Registered User
There's no case of "he said/she said" here. There was a credible eyewitness account of a heinous felony that was never reported to the authorities. Period, end of story.
As far as I'm concerned, Paterno is paying absolutely zero for his part in this coverup. He retires with full benefits at the age of 82; where's the "paying the price" in that?
On a related note, does anyone else wonder about the fact that all of this became public
a couple of weeks AFTER Joe Pa set the record for most wins by a coach? Mighty suspicious...
And what kind of piss poor excuse for a human being is the graduate assistant who witnessed a rape in progress and just walked away?
As far as I'm concerned, Paterno is paying absolutely zero for his part in this coverup. He retires with full benefits at the age of 82; where's the "paying the price" in that?
On a related note, does anyone else wonder about the fact that all of this became public
a couple of weeks AFTER Joe Pa set the record for most wins by a coach? Mighty suspicious...
And what kind of piss poor excuse for a human being is the graduate assistant who witnessed a rape in progress and just walked away?
11-09-2011, 07:31 PM
#59
Thread Starter
Now that's what I call a re-building year. Pres, Athletic Dir, and Coach all fired. I applaud the Board if they have the facts to back it up! Otherwise, they are just saying we can't win against the media circus.
11-09-2011, 08:32 PM
#60
The Patriot-News of Harrisburg has a front-page editorial calling for Paterno to leave. ....I love how the media can take the moral responsibility high ground when it suits them and the rest of the time they muck around in the gutter. The media just loves to build people up and then tear them down.
I'm not a fan of media frenzy but it sounds like they got it right this time, Dave
