ralper

I don't know. I think it's more than guns and more than just mental heath issues. I think there's some parental guidance and respect that needs to be thrown into the mix as well. I also think that we need to recognize how disenchanted people are feeling about their lives and the future and I think we have to recognize how very violent our society has become. Certainly our poor economy doesn't help nor does the frustration young people are feeling with their ability to get good jobs or how broken and grid locked our government is. We need, very badly, to teach our children the difference between right and wrong, and to stop making hero's of the bad guys.

I for one don't believe that there is any one silver bullet. I think that there are a lot of things that we have to address if we really want to solve these senseless shooting and killings. And I think we have to stop these senseless shootings and killings.

boltonblue

Sorry Rob, I have to disagree. While perhaps the violence part is, mental health is not a parental issue.
the issue goes well beyond " just the violence"
The violence is why we as individuals care since that is what we are affected by most dramatically.
But to Lainey's story, look at the lost souls wandering the streets.
And it is incredibly difficult to advocate for someone the way the legal system is currently structured.
to the courts the system is black or white. you are fine and independent free to do as you will, or you need to confined in lockdown.
The predicate conditions for to force treatment are:
1.) IMMINENT danger to self. think along the lines of "ok sir we need you to step back from the rail of the bridge...."
2.) IMMINENT danger to others, think along the lines of "put the gun down now!!!"
3.) utterly incapable of caring for oneself. think along the lines of being found in a pile of squalor, uhmm then again that might not be enough, depends on the judge

some sort of grey area in between, gee you're not doing so well, you need to check in with this counselor every two weeks and maybe some meds might help you.
"ooooh you're violating their rights to freedom of choice..." horseshit. nobody wants to belly up to the bar and bear the cost associated with the services.
Sadly mental health is the only disease that inhibits your ability to determine if you're OK.
no you''re not OK because you see purple men or hear Ceaser telling you things, or the devil is inside your head telling you to do bad things.
The poor guy who did these awful things had "the devil is inside your head telling you to do bad things. " but apparently that wasn't viewed as imminent and immediate...
He voluntarily came in for help and they blew it, so they kicked him loose...
someone dropped the ball really badly, the legal evaluation period for commitment is up to 72 hours. they had him for 11.
The hospital is hiding behind the state 3rd party evaluation process. I am sure that here will be lawsuits of epic proportion for wrongful death.
Sadly the lawsuits will further discourage good folks from entering the field because they just don't want the liability.
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england...379057761.html

and yes Bill, there is a lot of politics in the solution, but folks get passionate about guns, unfortunately very few get passionate about mental health.
and it certainly isn't a republican vs democrat political thing because nobody in office wants to touch it.

I have seen a variety of statistics that show 30-60% of all inmates are dealing with some degree of mental health issues.
and it is a vicious cycle.
they do something illegal because "the voice" told them it was OK or they think they own the store so it's ok... etc etc etc...
they get sent to jail... while in jail they get treated and medicated, make incredible progress and are rehabilitated and kicked loose.
once out they aren't on treatment any longer, the voices come back,
rinse wash and repeat.

dlq04

You are off base with that thinking. If only it were that easy. We know first hand, having brought someone into this world who we love with all our hearts, it was heartbreaking to watch her taken out of the house in a straight jacket. And the only clue was as a teenager she spent a lot of time in her bedroom. After that we had several years to see first hand the good, bad, and ugly of the mental health system. My oldest daughter is now happily married and stable provided she stays on her meds but thanks to bad counseling or maybe her condition she believes we were blame for her illness.

ralper

Please don't misunderstand my comment. I do think that mental health is a major issue. I just don't think its the only issue that we have to address.

boltonblue

All:

Think for a moment back to your last bizarre dream or nightmare.
Remember how weird everything was?
but finally you woke up or maybe even during the dream you snapped to consciousness because it got so scary.
once awake you thought back and thought wow that was weird and got on with your life?

In the world of the schizophrenic, the two are intermingled.
There is no weird dream. The boundary between dreams, imagination, fantasy and nightmare has breached over into the world of reality.
There is no waking up and thinking that was weird because it all seems real.


ponder that as you go through your normal day.

tof

My quick, and somewhat pessimistic thoughts...Please convince me I am wrong.

Defective brains, defective parenting, jobless youth...probably those account for 90% of violent crime. Violent crimes of passion get the headlines but I don't think they really account for a huge percentage of the total.

We used to do more for those requiring healthcare for mental issues but taxpayers would rather have good roads than a good mental health system. Our understanding and clinical effectiveness in dealing with mental illness are light years ahead of where we were a few decades ago but our willingness to provide effective clinical services to everyone in need has evaporated.

Parenting is a societal issue. Only the most draconian (and un-constitutional) actions by government can directly impact this issue.

Jobless youth? Yeah, that problem can be partially addressed through educational and economic policies. But for many, joblessness is a byproduct of the other two issues.

In the end we get the society we are willing to pay for, in terms of money, time, and effort.

dlq04

tof, I agree it always comes down to money and priorities. Sadly I believe part of the problem is the age old thinking - we don't want people to know someone in our family has a mental problem. Personally I find no shame what-so-ever in talking about it and every time I do I hear back a similar story.

Unlike cancer, which everyone freely talks about, it seems most families are unwilling to talk about personal mental health issues. In my dream world people who know someone with a mental issue would all wear a wrist band for an entire week once a year. Soon some people in power would say to themselves those are "votes". Hum, hum, hum, hum, maybe I should tap into that.

tof

Really good point, Dave. I could not agree more.

Lainey

I agree Dave too many times this subject is swept under the rug. Mental illness has nothing to do with poor parenting or lack of values. Other acts of violence may have something to do with upbringing but not the actions committed by the mentally ill. We need to stop blaming parents for everything. You can have 4,5,10 kids all raised the same way and still have a wayward child or one with mental illness.

S2KRAY

Spot on Dave, this is what my daughter says too.