[I posted an identical thread in Off Topic just a minute ago, but wanted to get the input from the grown ups at the big table. mods, if this extra thread is unnecessary clutter, feel free to delete this put please post a link in Vintage to the original thread in Off Topic, located here ]

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I had an epiphany the other day!

so now I'm wanting to do a preliminary patent search but not waste too much $. can anybody recommend a good *honest* attorney to have do a search for a simple consumer item? better yet, are there any patent attorneys on s2ki?

this is for a fairly simple, straight-forward electronic consumer item. not intellectual property, biotech or anything complicated like that. I'm not that bright.

I live in the SF Bay Area, so a local attorney would work best, but I don't have any problem faxing or mailing documents to an established law firm out of my area if it means I'll save a few hundred dollars in the end.

I'm aware that I can do searches at the USPTO.gov website, but either I'm terrible at selecting proper boolean search terms, or they make their search engine intentionally crappy to keep patent attorneys in business.

I had an attorney in SF once do a patent search for a very straight-forward item... and in no time flat the expenses were ballooning well beyond what his initial price estimate was-- even though the process was moving forward as normal, with no complications. I strongly contested, and he eventually stopped billing me. (if anybody wishes to know which asshole to avoid in SF, send me a PM. and no I'm not worried about soiling his reputation; it's only libel if it's not true. )

thanks in advance for all input.

 

I was going to suggest the website, but it seems you already tried that! Maybe LB will weigh in on this one, but he's not a patent attorney. (Although he might wish he were right now...)

 

Yeah, I was going to point you at legal bill too, tritium. He might have some pointers for you.

The patents I did at work were all covered by our corp. attorneys. We used two outside legal firms in Boston, but none of it was low-cost.

 

a pro bono patent attorney would be nice... a bit of a leap-of-faith perhaps, but I think my idea is a good one.

 

pro bono... Nah, I don't think so.

Good luck, trit.

I think I'll start a thread regarding patents in the near future. The whole subject is quite interesting to me now. In my field (computers), there's a strong argument that patent ownership slows down innovation in a field. And, with the advent of open source software communities, I'm starting to grok it more and more.

 

Sorry, I don't know of any good short cuts that work. I can ask someone here if they do anything to do a quick search for existing patents different from what was discussed above regarding the PTO's website.

 

I've got five patents, and a great patent attorney--email me if you want his information (he's in SoCal).

If your epiphany is in an area that is your specialty, then you might be the best source of information/background. Have you seen the part in your field before? Your contemporaries? Don't forget that a patent could have been filed 100 years ago, making the idea unpatentable today.

If you've put in a good search effort, the best thing to do is to file a patent claim. If your idea REALLY CAN make money, an attorney is your best bet. Otherwise, if you've got a better toilet paper holder, there are inexpensive forms that lead you through the process online. The beauty is, you don't have to do the search at this point--let the patent office do it for you. OR, you can pay your attorney $250/hour to search before filing....HMMM, that's a tough one...

The patent office will invariably REJECT your first patent application--they do to everyone, and base it on some obscure similar patent. At this point, you need to tell them WHY your idea/product/thingy is different.

Remember, if you narrowly define your product, your will have a better shot at a patent, but your competition will have more room to imitate. It is also possible to keep a patent "open" by thinking up new additions or ideas for your original patent--once you're "in the door", this is easier. It can get a little expensive, but you can then expand a limited patent.

GOOD LUCK!

 

Hey trit, after you make your first few million from your invention, just remember who your friends are!!!


(good luck, it sounds exciting)

 

hi cordy-- I might need that attorney's services in the near future, so I'll send you a PM.

this epiphany wasn't in my area of specialty. it was just one of those, I'm talking to a couple of strangers about a fairly common problem that's been around for a while... and I ask myself, "Isn't there a way to solve or atleast alleviate this?" I then spent the drive home coming up with a feasible solution.

so now I'm at that tough first juncture regarding researching my idea:
- If I just go ahead and do the research necessary to develop it, it might all be a waste of time (and some money) because someone else has already patented this idea.
- If I first do a patent search, that'll cost me a good chunk of money right up front, especially if I end up discovering that yep, someone already has patented this idea.

per cordycord's input, I'm starting to lean towards just going ahead and developing the idea-- it'll be a good mental exercise -- and then filing for a patent online. (btw, which websites do you recommend for doing the patent process myself, cordycord?)

regarding my personal beliefs for how successful I think it'll be, I think it has real potential to permanently bump me up a tax bracket or two. otherwise, what's the point?

case in point: I once had an idea about an improvement in the kayak industry. even went so far as to draw out the design idea, travel to Washington state and talk to a major manufacturer in that industry, NDA, the whole 9 yards. they liked my idea. never saw anything like it. think-- with some work-- it could be a real improvement.

but I realized... it's kayaking for crying out loud. I could put in the work to do the R&D, and even if it's revolutionary... my overall market is very small, and thus the payoff equally so. so I've shelved the idea... for now. even years later, I've gotten the ocassional call from that company.

my current idea has a much larger market. and if I properly bribe-- I mean lobby-- my dream is to get this item installed mandatory in vehicles. or atleast be a dealer installed option. of course, much more than that... I can't say.

 

thanks for the words of support Rob.