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Planning the "move out"

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Old 05-07-2005 | 06:58 PM
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Default Planning the "move out"

I meant to start this thread ages ago, and I was just reminded of the thought by pas2k's "dream house" thread.

My wife and I talk about the "move out" once in a while. We still have young kids in the house, and we're not near retirement yet (well, at least I'm not ), but we definitely think about it. We live in a nice place and a terrific neighborhood; no complaints. But, down the road, neither of us really imagines staying here when the walls stop reverberating from the kids' chatter and the everyday business of raising a family is all past us.

Interestingly, there are quite a few older couples who've retained their homes around us. I guess my feeling is "that's great, but who the heck wants to worry about a big ole house as they get older." Jeez, I watch my 75 year old neighbor climbing a ladder to the top of his 20+' colonial roof, and I cringe.

I expect that Karen and I will move into a city. We've always regretted not living in one when we've had the chance(s) in the past. I think having restaurants, culture, etc. in easy reach would be wonderful. On the other hand, cities are noisy, smelly, and not always all that pleasant. Besides, where am I going to keep my S?

I imagine that this decision will be affected by what my kids ultimately decide to do with their lives. My own parents did their "move out" from our home in Long Island, NY to come up and live here near us! Talk about nutso... Enduring New England winters is really not what I had in mind for them. But, so be it.

What do you think you'll do (or what have you already done), my dear Vintagers?
Old 05-07-2005 | 07:05 PM
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Hard to say until we get there, but we think we'll probably move back into Manhattan, and buy a winter place some place warm. We think about it but we've not made any definate plans. We've still got a lot of years to go.

Like I said, this kind of thing is hard to know until we get there.
Old 05-07-2005 | 07:11 PM
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City living would do nothing for Rick or for me. Guess we are "country bumpkins"

Our home is not large, so we can maintain it for years to come without too much difficulty, as long as we are relatively healthy.

We have quite a few years left to work. Down the line, I'd love to escape New England for the winter, but our roots are pretty deep here. Can't see us moving too far away.
Old 05-07-2005 | 07:31 PM
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Moved from a big Victorian in Newburyport, MA to a smaller house near Seattle. Motives were to be near grandchildren and to have easier maintenance. That worked out well. Went from a small city to suburban sprawl, however - not so good.

We do like the Northwest -mild winters, cool summers, natural beauty, no road salt.
Old 05-07-2005 | 07:45 PM
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Since Boston is the hub of the universe, we will always have something here. The question is what?? The next question is the second house. We already have two houses. One here and one on the Cape. The trouble is, when I imagine the perfect set up, I need a condo in Boston, a house down the Cape, a lot with a 10 car garage, and a place on the water with a boat slip in Florida or the Carolinas. Now, I'm happy to combine some of these things, but I don't have time to find the right places.

I think it might happen in steps. First, the sale of our current cape house and the purchase of the cape house on the water. Then the sale of the family home and the purchase of the Boston Condo. Later, when I stop working altogether, we sell the Boston Condo, and buy the Florida/Carolina house. I just think I will need multiple garages in all of them.
Old 05-07-2005 | 07:48 PM
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Hey Bill,

The Sox won the World Series. What's there to stick around for?
Old 05-07-2005 | 07:56 PM
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I think that many of you know that Jackie and I are in the process of moving to Mexico. Having explored various more economical places to live in the U.S., we still came to the conclusion that the level of locked in taxes (primarily real estate) in the United States was currently too high, and only destined to be considerably higher in the future.

We want to live the rest of our lives somewhere that we will enjoy; but we don't want to be taxed to death. We feel that due to the spending level of our government, that our taxes can only continue to skyrocket. We feel that the spending of the government is totally out of control and that there is no way to control it for the future. Anyone who we might speak to about it in the government is part of the system, and has an interest in the systems continuation status quo. Those that are in control of the system are secure with their federal pensions already in place. We no longer wish to participate in a system where we are forced to pay for the retirements and health care of government workers through our taxes, but still have to fend for ourselves when it comes to our retirement and our health care. We don't want to see our life savings that we have put away for our retirement, being taken from us to pay (through taxes) for the retirement and benefits of others, leaving us with nothing.

Our solution is to move somewhere where the weather is kind, and where taxes on a very nice place to live is about $300.00 a year. We will still have to pay Federal income taxes (unless we go totally into tax free bonds) , but the real estate taxes of at least $6000.00 (the least expensive tax level that we found for a place that we would consider living in) will not be present. Frankly we feel that Real Estate taxes will be double what they currently are in ten years time.

So we are in the process of divestiture of physical assets while our dream home (actually a condo) is being built in Mexico. It will be ready at about the end of 2006; after that we will be heading south of the border; joining the 5 - 6000 other "expats" already living in Mazatlan.

For those wanting to consider the option of moving out of the U.S.A. : Mexico, Costa Rica, and Panama are the three places with a land link to the United States that seem most promising currently.

More and more people are leaving the United States for the reasons I have stated. Here is a recent article:

Some in U.S. voting with their feet By Rick Lyman The New York Times
Monday, February 7, 2005


VANCOUVER, British Columbia Christopher Key knows exactly what he would be giving up if he left Bellingham, Washington.

"It's the sort of place Norman Rockwell would paint, where everyone watches out for everyone else and we have block parties every year," said Key, a 56-year-old Vietnam War veteran and former magazine editor who lists Francis Scott Key, who wrote "The Star-Spangled Banner," among his ancestors.

But leave it he intends to do, and as soon as he can. His house is on the market, and he is busily seeking work across the border in Canada. For him, the re-election of George W. Bush was the last straw.

"I love the United States," he said as he stood on the Vancouver waterfront, staring toward the Coastal Range, which was lost in a gray shroud. "I fought for it in Vietnam. It's a wrenching decision to think about leaving. But America is turning into a country very different from the one I grew up believing in."

In the Niagara of liberal angst just after Bush's victory on Nov. 2, the Canadian government's immigration Web site reported a surge in inquiries from the United States, to about 115,000 a day from 20,000.

After three months, memories of the election have begun to recede. There has been an inauguration, even a State of the Union address.

Yet immigration lawyers say that Americans are not just making inquiries and that more are pursuing a move above the 49th parallel, fed up with a country they see drifting persistently to the right and abandoning the principles of tolerance, compassion and peaceful idealism they felt once defined the nation.

America is in no danger of emptying out. But even a small loss of population, many from a deep sense of political despair, is a significant event in the life of a nation that thinks of itself as a place to escape to. Firm numbers on potential immigrants are elusive.

"The number of U.S. citizens who are actually submitting Canadian immigration papers and making concrete plans is about three or four times higher than normal," said Linda Mark, an immigration lawyer in Vancouver.

Other immigration lawyers in Toronto, Montreal and Halifax, Nova Scotia, said they had noticed a similar uptick, though most put the rise at closer to threefold.

"We're still not talking about a huge movement of people," said David Cohen, an immigration lawyer in Montreal. "In 2003, the last year where full statistics are available, there were something like 6,000 U.S. citizens who received permanent resident status in Canada. So even if we do go up threefold this year, we're only talking about 18,000 people."

Still, that is more than double the population of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. "For every one who reacts to the Bush victory by moving to a new country, how many others are there still in America, feeling similarly disaffected but not quite willing to take such a drastic step?" Cohen asked.

Melanie Redman, 30, assistant director of the Epilepsy Foundation in Seattle, said she had put her Volvo up for sale and hopes to be living in Toronto by the summer. She and her Canadian boyfriend, a Web site designer for Canadian nonprofit companies, had been planning to move to New York, but after Nov.2, they decided on Canada instead.

"I'm doing it," she said. "I don't want to participate in what this administration is doing here and around the world. Under Bush, the U.S. seems to be leading the pack as the world spirals down."

Redman intends to apply for a conjugal visa, which can be easier to get than the skilled worker visa that most Americans require. To do so, she must prove she and her boyfriend have had a relationship for at least a year, so she has collected supporting paperwork, like love letters, to present to the Canadian government.

"I'm originally from a poor, lead-mining town in Missouri, and I know a lot of the people there don't understand why I'm doing this," she said. "Even my family is pretty disappointed. And the fact is, it makes me pretty sad, too. But I just can't bear to pay taxes in the United States right now."

Compared with the other potential immigrants interviewed, Redman was far along in planning.

Mike Aves, 40, a financial planner in Palm Beach, Florida, where he has been active in the Young Democrats, said he was finding it almost impossible from that distance to land a job in Canada. "I've told my wife, I'd be willing to take a step down, socioeconomically, to move from white-collar work to a blue-collar job, if it would get us to Canada," he said.

Many of those interviewed said the idea of moving to Canada had been simmering in the backs of their minds for years, partly as a reaction to what they saw as a rightward drift in the United States and partly as a desire to live in a place they see as more tolerant, pacific and, yes, liberal. But for all, the re-election of Bush was decisive.

"Not everybody is prepared to live their political values, but these are people who are," said Jason Mogus, an Internet entrepreneur in Vancouver whose communicopia.net offers marketing services for progressive companies and nonprofit groups, and whose canadianalternative.com is often the first stop for Americans eager to learn about moving north.

"Immigration to Canada is not like packing your family in a car and moving across the state line," Mogus said. "It's a long process. It can take 18 months or even longer sometimes. And if you hire a lawyer to help you, it can cost thousands of dollars."

So Mogus said the response to the Web site, from all over the United States, had amazed him. Some are drawn by Canada's more tolerant attitude toward same-sex unions, he said, and there are a surprising number of middle-aged professionals.

"My wife and I have talked for a long time about perhaps retiring to a condo in downtown Vancouver," said Frederick Newmeyer, 61, a professor of linguistics at the University of Washington in Seattle. "But the election was the tipping point."
Old 05-07-2005 | 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Legal Bill,May 7 2005, 11:45 PM
Later, when I stop working altogether, we sell the Boston Condo, and buy the Florida/Carolina house. I just think I will need multiple garages in all of them.
How is this for a big garage:



We will have four spaces at Las Gavias --- with metal storage lockers such as this in front of them:

Old 05-07-2005 | 08:06 PM
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Here is one of many sites with info on moving ot Mexico:

http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico

another is here:

http://www.maztravel.com/maz/retire.html



More and more people are plunking down money for a place in Mexico. We were fortunate to get preconstruction prices in a city where the Real Estate prices have not already started to reach the levels found here in the States. For the prices in Cabo or Puerto Vallarta, one might as well just stay here in the States.
Old 05-07-2005 | 08:36 PM
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Eliot,

Looks like a beautiful place, but are you making a political statement with this move, or is this really where you want to be? Don't mean to be a wise guy, but I'm curious.


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