raymo19

So does that mean the opinions issued by the highest court in the land are irrelevant? Wait a minute, you may be right.

silvershadow

I think that, as an engineer, I and most other engineers that I know have a distinct definition for "fact". That definition being that a fact is something that is measurable, quantifiable, and the parameters well defined.

The volume of that ball is x cc's for example when at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. By the way, room temperature and atmospheric pressure are known quantities (based on your set of units - I.e., Imperial units, SI units, etc.)

mikegarrison

There's really no such thing as "authority" when it comes to philosophy anyway. I just meant to point out that there is such a thing as the study of "what is a fact?"

tof

[QUOTE=Legal Bill,May 10 2008, 06:21 PM] Everyone knows that opinion is irrelevant.

valentine

That's a lawyer's opinion. Oops, maybe I shouldn't have said that. I'm glad this thread has evoked some convo and I totally agree with RC's post. Mike, its going to take me a while to read all that Wikipedia stuff so I'll have a clue as to what facts are.

tof

It is just as accurate to say 2+2=11. To find out why, read on...

There are no "facts". Or there are lots of "facts". It depends on your definition of "fact". Your list of "facts" can be very different from mine.

We all have different opinions about what is and what is not a fact. Some of these differences stem from differences in our observations and in our analysis of those observations. We even differ as to what constitute a fact. We all use different scales by which we judge what it takes for a bit of information to qualify as a "fact".

I take the extreme view that the only fact I know to be true is that I exist in some shape or form. (Cognito ergo sum...I think so therefore I am.) Everything else is opinion based on observation and memory. Others accept the existance of God as a fact. (Some even live accordingly.) There are many poor souls who take anything they read in World Weekly News as fact. But to me, its all opinion based on remembered observations and on an analysis of those observations. Some opinions are more informed and therefore more likely to be true than others. But they are all, in the end, only opinions.

I suppose you could argue that "facts" are those things that we base our actions upon with a high degree of confidence that they are true. This definition is a little slippery, though. The nature of the action determines how rigorously we apply our confidence test. I am more likely to accept as fact that my jacket will keep me warm enough for a given outside temperature than I am to accept as fact that my parachute will keep me safe if I jump out of an airplane. Never mind that the guy who packed my chute is probably better at that than I am at judging the effectiveness of my outerwear.

If you look at "facts" this way, then it becomes clear that they are not truths in the absolute sense but mearly guesses at absolute truths. As soon as you accept that then you begin to understand that facts are neither black or white but merely shades of grey, that reasonable people can disagree about the validity of many "facts" and that it the exploration of such differences can contribute to what we like to call wisdome.

And 2+2 does equal 11, in base 3.

Kyras

I'm all for people expressing their opinion, when it's presented as such. When a person expresses their opinion and acts as if it's the only right way, or the truth, that's when my feathers get ruffled. After a person does that repeatedly, I will quit reading their posts.

tof

Now THERE is a sensible way to deal with folks who annly you with their posts. Of course thats only my opinion.

trapper

[QUOTE=Kyras,May 12 2008, 02:29 PM]I'm all for people expressing their opinion, when it's presented as such.

boltonblue

Can I get a "yes dear" ?
amen brother