Chazmo

Sometimes when I think the human race is worth saving, I remember places like Vegas and I question that judgement.

rjosey8385

[QUOTE=Warren J. Dew,Jan 17 2005, 12:27 AM]On the other hand, if you are looking for things to make illegal, alcohol should probably be far higher on the list.

Chazmo

Quite an excellent question, rj. I ask myself this question at least once a week, and more like once a day since Iraq... I think we all have to take our own stand on this issue or it's impossible to judge right from wrong... That is, unless you factor religion into this.

dean

I'm not quite sure that I understand what you mean, Chaz. Are you saying that you believe that religion holds a monopoly on morality?

Dean

Chazmo

My apologies, Dean. What I meant was that whatever religion you follow, you have clergy, writings, etc. to help a person determine the answer to rj's question in various situations.

An atheist does not have the teachings of religion to frame answers to the question. Without a higher authority to tell him what to do, an atheist struggles to come up with an answer based on something akin to the utilitarian principle, or something like that.

rjosey8385

Nah - I think I know what he's saying. Religion is supposed to put everything right up front in black and white. We know it doesn't, but it is supposed to. Your religion has a basic set of rules and standards, and if you're a follower, these issues may not be gray areas to you.....murder someone - you're dead...take your own life - you're banished from heaven...sleep with someone of the same sex - your dead or banished from heaven (or whatever the vaporization of Sodom and Gomorrah represented)...etc. Those who don't use religious guidelines or those who don't totally agree with their religion's standards just don't have such a black and white scale to base decisions on.

rjosey8385

Yah - what Chaz said (so much more eloquently and briefly than I did )

dean

I'll buy that, as it is my belief that morals and ethics arose independently of religion. (However, I'm not so sure that Bentham's Utilitarian ethics should be the sole basis for forming moral or ethical guidelines.)

As one notable observer of the human condition put it:

"Over the centuries, we've moved on from Scripture to accumulate precepts of ethical, legal and moral philosophy. We've evolved a liberal consensus of what we regard as underpinnings of decent society, such as the idea that we don't approve of slavery or discrimination on the grounds of race or sex, that we respect free speech and the rights of the individual. All of these things that have become second nature to our morals today owe very little to religion, and mostly have been won in opposition to the teeth of religion."

Dean

Chazmo

, kids!

Another great controversial topic: religion and society. Given the state of our country today, my views (as an atheist) are really irrelevant, but I'll keep an eye on the discussion from the sidelines.

dean

If that were true, then my views would also be irrelevant. It isn't and they aren't, so climb back into the ring, girly-man.

Dean