How about a controversial thread?
03-21-2005, 05:29 PM
#1211
^ Can't imagine how there could be, Jeff. Euthanasia is a choice among different, bad-to-worse scenarios. There's really no good resolution. Frankly speaking, death by starvation or death by medicine overdose or some other means is still death.
I think it's instructional to look at how we treat pets in these types of situations. We think about two things: 1. What's the animal's quality of life going to be if we take extreme measures, and 2. How will the family be affected by the death of the animal.
I realize we're talking about human beings here, but I think there are strong parallels when talking about a comatose / braindead human.
I completely agree with Jeff that these decisions are hard enough without the scrutiny or intervention of others. Of course, you have to decide where you stand on the issue of whether the "person" in question has rights. Again, think of the pet.
(just my $0.02...)
I think it's instructional to look at how we treat pets in these types of situations. We think about two things: 1. What's the animal's quality of life going to be if we take extreme measures, and 2. How will the family be affected by the death of the animal.
I realize we're talking about human beings here, but I think there are strong parallels when talking about a comatose / braindead human.
I completely agree with Jeff that these decisions are hard enough without the scrutiny or intervention of others. Of course, you have to decide where you stand on the issue of whether the "person" in question has rights. Again, think of the pet.
(just my $0.02...)
03-21-2005, 05:50 PM
#1212
Good point Chaz.
I've often said when it comes to terminal illness, or inability to live life with any quality, due to medical issues, we treat our animals more humanely than we do human beings.
To be really controversial, I'd like the option of calling a Dr. Kevorkian kind of guy if I felt the need due to health issues, but again, for humans, that's not an option.
On a personal note, we too have dealt with a similar issue as Terry Schivao's family. Some family members were questioning the decision that was made, but thankfully a written health care proxy was in hand. So folks, if you don't have it in writing, who is to make medical decisions for you in the event you cannot, now is the time to get it done.
In MA (not sure about other states)living wills are not accepted.
I've often said when it comes to terminal illness, or inability to live life with any quality, due to medical issues, we treat our animals more humanely than we do human beings.
To be really controversial, I'd like the option of calling a Dr. Kevorkian kind of guy if I felt the need due to health issues, but again, for humans, that's not an option.
On a personal note, we too have dealt with a similar issue as Terry Schivao's family. Some family members were questioning the decision that was made, but thankfully a written health care proxy was in hand. So folks, if you don't have it in writing, who is to make medical decisions for you in the event you cannot, now is the time to get it done.
In MA (not sure about other states)living wills are not accepted.
03-21-2005, 06:12 PM
#1213
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking of how we treat animals, this is what the judge presiding over the Schiavo case did to a couple of guys who don't like birds...
U.S. District Court Judge James D. Whittemore, during his tenure on the federal bench since being appointed in 1999 by President Bill Clinton, has faithfully adhered to the "The Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act". Indeed, he fined Mylon L. Stockton $90,000 and Mark A. Borinsky $10,000, while sentencing both men to one year's probation for having felled a pine tree on Borinsky's property in Venice, Florida, that had a visible eagle's nest in it. Apart from being able to see it, both men had additionally been advised by a neighbor of the location of the eagle's nest. Nonetheless, they cut the tree down with a chainsaw and handled the pine tree in such a way as to cause the nest to dislodge from the tree. Following this violation of federal law, the men exacerbated their misdeed by cutting down additional trees on the property, which in turn fell directly on the nest on the ground, thus destroying it.
...from TheAnchoress.blogspot.com
U.S. District Court Judge James D. Whittemore, during his tenure on the federal bench since being appointed in 1999 by President Bill Clinton, has faithfully adhered to the "The Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act". Indeed, he fined Mylon L. Stockton $90,000 and Mark A. Borinsky $10,000, while sentencing both men to one year's probation for having felled a pine tree on Borinsky's property in Venice, Florida, that had a visible eagle's nest in it. Apart from being able to see it, both men had additionally been advised by a neighbor of the location of the eagle's nest. Nonetheless, they cut the tree down with a chainsaw and handled the pine tree in such a way as to cause the nest to dislodge from the tree. Following this violation of federal law, the men exacerbated their misdeed by cutting down additional trees on the property, which in turn fell directly on the nest on the ground, thus destroying it.
...from TheAnchoress.blogspot.com
03-21-2005, 08:34 PM
#1214
Originally Posted by fltsfshr,Mar 21 2005, 05:01 PM
....I think the Republicans come out winners on this one. One can never say they don't care for the people. Talk about micro management. I also think the courts will agree with the Florida courts and it's all really a mute point......
You don't consider interference with the FL courts by W's bro and the lunatic US House/ Senate as "micromanagement"?
03-21-2005, 09:47 PM
#1215
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ultimately if the ruling of a judiciary is found to be faulty, it is the responsibility of the elected legislature to reign them in. You can call your congressman--a judge might as well be a monarch.
The 'right to life' part of this case for me takes second tier to the abuse. Any guardian who won't let the parents visit, allow rehabilitation, or even allow her a wheelchair isn't someone I want taking care of me.
The 'right to life' part of this case for me takes second tier to the abuse. Any guardian who won't let the parents visit, allow rehabilitation, or even allow her a wheelchair isn't someone I want taking care of me.
03-22-2005, 01:16 AM
#1216
Contrary to what some people may think, the Judiciary branch is the weakest of the three branches of our government. And this is by the intent of the origial framers of the Constitution. When Judiciary branch starts to legislate, we have a problem. Their job is not to legislate but to interpret laws. The judge in Floria with the Schiavo case seems to think otherwise. And that is his prerogative. However it is also the lawmakers' prerogative to see differently and act upon what they collectively believe is the right thing to do as in this case they did with bi-partisan support. Are we saying that the entire Congress is wrong on this part?
03-22-2005, 01:28 AM
#1217
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Milford
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Honda 367,Mar 22 2005, 05:16 AM
Contrary to what some people may think, the Judiciary branch is the weakest of the three branches of our government. And this is by the intent of the origial framers of the Constitution. When Judiciary branch starts to legislate, we have a problem. Their job is not to legislate but to interpret laws. The judge in Floria with the Schiavo case seems to think otherwise. And that is his prerogative. However it is also the lawmakers' prerogative to see differently and act upon what they collectively believe is the right thing to do as in this case they did with bi-partisan support. Are we saying that the entire Congress is wrong on this part?
I think that 10 years is plenty long enough to decide this thing. Every time it appears that there is a resolution, another court or legislative body gets involved. Talk about being stuck in the seventh ring of Hell.
The right to life and the right to die are both sides of the same coin. I am totally against abortion. However, a fetus cannot make a rational decision to terminate its own life. An adult can.
03-22-2005, 03:41 AM
#1218
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Milford
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This just in:
Judge Won't Order Schiavo Tube Reinsertion
By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer
50 minutes ago
TAMPA, Fla. - A federal judge on Tuesday refused to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman's parents.
The ruling by U.S. District Judge James Whittemore comes after feverish action by President Bush and Congress on legislation allowing her contentious case to be reviewed by federal courts. The judge said the 41-year-old woman's parents had not established a "substantial likelihood of success" at trial on the merits of their arguments.
Rex Sparklin, an attorney with the law firm representing Terri Schiavo's parents, said lawyers were immediately appealing to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta to "save Terri's life."
The tube was disconnected Friday on the orders of a state judge, prompting an extraordinary weekend effort by congressional Republicans to push through unprecedented emergency legislation early Monday aimed at keeping her alive.
Schiavo did not have a living will. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has fought in courts for years to have the tube removed because he said she would not want to be kept alive artificially and she has no hope for recovery. Her parents contend she responds to them and her condition could improve.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Gee, it looks like I'm psychic or something.
Judge Won't Order Schiavo Tube Reinsertion
By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer
50 minutes ago
TAMPA, Fla. - A federal judge on Tuesday refused to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman's parents.
The ruling by U.S. District Judge James Whittemore comes after feverish action by President Bush and Congress on legislation allowing her contentious case to be reviewed by federal courts. The judge said the 41-year-old woman's parents had not established a "substantial likelihood of success" at trial on the merits of their arguments.
Rex Sparklin, an attorney with the law firm representing Terri Schiavo's parents, said lawyers were immediately appealing to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta to "save Terri's life."
The tube was disconnected Friday on the orders of a state judge, prompting an extraordinary weekend effort by congressional Republicans to push through unprecedented emergency legislation early Monday aimed at keeping her alive.
Schiavo did not have a living will. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has fought in courts for years to have the tube removed because he said she would not want to be kept alive artificially and she has no hope for recovery. Her parents contend she responds to them and her condition could improve.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Gee, it looks like I'm psychic or something.
03-22-2005, 05:17 AM
#1220
Yea and I see the nurse claiming attempted murder charges and maltreatment of her has popped up again. I just caught her on tv claiming shaivo's husband tried to kill shaivo with an overdose of insulin.
The broadcast on Fox sounded like a front page of the Enquirer or the Star the way it was presented.
Lets beat that rating horse to death somemore!
Pander on World Pander ON
fltsfshr
The broadcast on Fox sounded like a front page of the Enquirer or the Star the way it was presented.
Lets beat that rating horse to death somemore!
Pander on World Pander ON
fltsfshr