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Old 02-22-2005, 07:51 PM
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Hey,

Remember when every time Clinton stained a blue dress, he fired off a rocket at an aspirin factory?
Old 02-22-2005, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cordycord' date='Feb 22 2005, 11:51 PM
Hey,

Remember when every time Clinton stained a blue dress, he fired off a rocket at an aspirin factory?
Cordy,

I expected that answer, but we're talking about Bush, not Clinton.
Old 02-22-2005, 07:58 PM
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Sounds more like a mutual pity party on this thread--guess I've stayed away too long.

If I let you guys talk amongst yourselves long enough, Bush would be to blame for a cold shower when you flush the toilet.
Old 02-22-2005, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cordycord' date='Feb 22 2005, 11:58 PM
Sounds more like a mutual pity party on this thread--guess I've stayed away too long.

If I let you guys talk amongst yourselves long enough, Bush would be to blame for a cold shower when you flush the toilet.
Not completely. I'm sure you'd remind us of something some Democrat did in order to justify W's actions.
Old 02-22-2005, 08:07 PM
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Hey Rob,

What do you think about these "secret" Bush tapes? Can't claim that I know much, other than it looks like he did inhale, and he seems like the same person in private and public. Okay, he may be grating either way (depending on who you are), but at least he doesn't seem to be acting.
Old 02-22-2005, 08:39 PM
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Hey Rob,

Here's the most recent thing I read about Paul Krugman, from www.poorandstupid.com :

THE LEFT'S LOAN LIE Can it really be that leftist economists don't know the difference between a margin account and an opportunity cost? It's basic economics. But for Paul Krugman and his acolytes and fellow travelers, it's really all about basic partisan politics.

According to Krugman's New York Times column today, when you divert some of your Social Security payroll tax dollars into a personal account of the kind that President Bush is proposing, the government is effectively making a loan to you so that you can buy stocks on margin -- "speculation that no financial adviser would recommend."

Huh? Excuse me Professor Krugman, but that's my money we're talking about -- my payroll tax dollars. My personal account. Nobody's loaning me anything.

Here's Krugman's tortured and deceptive logic that gets him to his "loan" characterization. He quotes a White House press briefing that explains how workers who opt for personal accounts would have to forgo some of their regular Social Security benefits:

"In return for the opportunity to get the benefits from the personal account, the person forgoes a certain amount of benefits from the traditional system. Now, the way that election is structured, the person comes out ahead if their personal account exceeds a 3 percent rate of return" -- after inflation -- "which is the rate of return that the trust fund bonds receive. So, basically, the net effect on an individual's benefits would be zero if his personal account earned a 3 percent rate of return."

That's perfectly fair -- it's a simple trade-off. If it didn't work that way, then workers who elected personal accounts would be double dipping. But here's the way Krugman twists it:

Translation: If you put part of your payroll taxes into a personal account, your future benefits will be reduced by an amount equivalent to the amount you would have had to repay if you had borrowed the money at a real interest rate of 3 percent.

Peter Orszag of the Brookings Institution got it exactly right: "It's not a nest egg. It's a loan."

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If it's a loan at all, it's a loan you make to yourself. And that's no loan at all. Real economists -- as opposed to Democratic apparatchiks like Krugman and Orszag -- call such a thing not a loan, but an "opportunity cost."

Here's an example. Suppose you have $1000 in a money market fund earning 3%, and you are considering investing that money in the stock market. The opportunity cost of that investment will be 3%, because you give up the 3% yield of the money market fund. That means you'll only come out net ahead on the stock investment if it returns more than 3% -- just as in proposed Social Security personal accounts. But there's no loan involved here. None.

In this case, your future benefits are analogous to the money market fund. In order to invest in stocks in your personal accounts, you have to give up the future benefits. A simple trade-off. An opportunity cost. Not a loan.

Here's what a real loan would look. You have that $1000 in the money market fund, but you want to invest $2000 in the stock market. So you borrow an additional $1000 from your stockbroker.

Or in the case of Social Security, suppose you are a struggling young African American working for minimum wage. You urgently want to own stocks, so you can start building a nest egg for your family. But you have no money to invest, because Social Security taxes have sucked up anything you could have set aside from your small earnings. So you manage to borrow some money, and you invest it in stocks. That's a loan. That's speculation. And that's what the opponents of personal accounts would prefer for America.

As a side note, that quote from Peter Orszag comes from a Washington Post story yesterday by liberal Washington reporter Jonathon Weisman. His story, based on that same press briefing that Krugman quoted, completely misstated the way Social Security benefits would be offset for personal account holders. He called it a "clawback," in which the government would confiscate earnings in your personal account below 3%. An array of spokesmen both liberal and conservative -- no doubt caught by surprise by Weisman's revelation of the non-existent "clawback" -- were quoted about how shocked and dismayed they were by it. Weisman loves to quote conservatives criticizing Bush; it's his specialty.

But, of course, it was all simply wrong. After the White House issued a statement noting the error, the Post published a substantially corrected version on its web site. One can only imagine how Krugman's column today -- which quoted the Post story, and I have no doubt originally quoted it more extensively -- had to be re-engineered at the last minute before deadline, in order to avoid more than the usual embarrassment that attends the typical Krugman column.

To give you some idea of how the left respects the truth in these matters, visit the blog of U. C. Berkeley professor Brad DeLong -- a Krugman acolyte and former Clinton administration official who once described himself as "more inclined toward 'Marxism' than anybody else on the Berkeley campus," which is saying quite a bit. When the Post story first came out, he applauded Weisman and delightedly dilated on the notion of the benefit trade-off as a loan. When the correction was issued, DeLong amended his posting to say "the Post has buckled... Glad to see such spine." You'd think he'd be glad to see the truth. But no.

Update... A reader points out the the Orszag quote cited by Krugman was removed from the corrected Post story! The Times' new motto: "all the news that others find unfit to print."
Old 02-22-2005, 08:50 PM
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Here's another story about Krugman--I cut it short, but you get the idea...

THE MAESTRO AND THE EXPERT HACK There's a reason why they call Alan Greenspan "the maestro." In testimony to the Senate Finance Committee last Wednesday, the Fed chairman offered a compelling endorsement of President Bush's Social Security reform with personal accounts that was both powerful and thoughtful, both persuasive and nuanced.

What was Paul Krugman's reaction in his Friday New York Times column? You won't be surprised: according to America's most dangerous liberal pundit, Greenspan "has betrayed the trust placed in Fed chairmen, and deserves to be treated as just another partisan hack." This isn't the first time Krugman has called Greenspan a "hack" -- that's the word he uses when the maestro says something with which Krugman disagrees. It works the other way, too, of course -- less than a year ago Krugman cited Greenspan an "expert" when the maestro said something with which Krugman agreed.

If Greenspan is, by turns, an "expert" or a "hack," what does that make Krugman? Based on all the astonishingly brazen distortions and outright lies in his latest column about Greenspan, Krugman is nothing less than an "expert hack."

also from www.poorandstupid.com, aka the conspiracy to keep you poor and stupid...
Old 02-22-2005, 08:56 PM
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Okay, last one:

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/...kin-archive.asp

a Krugman compilation...
Old 02-23-2005, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ralper' date='Feb 22 2005, 11:42 PM
Here's a good controversy for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/23/politics...artner=homepage

Assisted suicide. Legal in the State of Oregon. The Bush administration is taking the law to the Supreme Court.
Good grief. Is there any aspect of my life that pimple on the ass of progress doesn't want to control?

Thanks for elevating my BP this morning, Rob. Thanks a lot.
Old 02-23-2005, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dean' date='Feb 23 2005, 08:22 AM
Thanks for elevating my BP this morning, Rob. Thanks a lot.
Don't mention it. Glad to get you back into the swing of things.


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